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I am finding many hex head cap screws on my very late production 63 SWC that don't match the JG or Paragon's reference chart, yet they appear to be original. For example, the anti roll bar is supposed to be WB2C, yet all the heads are marked "E"....I assume that I should try to change fasteners to match the JG even though they are original type fasteners. The front part of the car has many "E" head fasteners. They are the type with a ridge around the perimeter of the head and a depressed center where the "E" is located. The head is similar to what Paragon identifies as PN 1917. Horn fasteners are marked WBR. I have heard that the Corvette assemblers were not terribly precise and discrepancies were common. I assume fasteners would be a great place to find such discrepancies. How are such things judged and what would be a typical deduct for "E" head cap screws on the anti roll bar as an example?
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob------
I'd leave the fastners as-is; I strongly suspect that they're original. The "indented-head" configuration that you describe is almost always a PRODUCTION-type part. Rarely, were these type of bolts ever sold in hardware stores or other "run-of-the-mill" places likely to be a source for auto repair mechanics. They could be obtained from GM in SERVICE, but VERY few folks ever ordered "standard parts" from GM.
Head markings, as have been discussed here at length, may vary widely as MANY manufacturers often supplied fastners to the assembly lines. I really don't think that there are any absolutely correct and exclusive head markings. Those that may be specified in the judging guides and other references are merely those head markings that have been observed at certain positions on known-original cars. All it really means is that the referenced head markings are correct; it doesn't mean that any other headmarkings are "incorrect" or non-original.
I don't know what sort of requirements or judging penalties might be involved for "non-conforming" fastners, though.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob------
I'd leave the fastners as-is; I strongly suspect that they're original. The "indented-head" configuration that you describe is almost always a PRODUCTION-type part. Rarely, were these type of bolts ever sold in hardware stores or other "run-of-the-mill" places likely to be a source for auto repair mechanics. They could be obtained from GM in SERVICE, but VERY few folks ever ordered "standard parts" from GM.
Head markings, as have been discussed here at length, may vary widely as MANY manufacturers often supplied fastners to the assembly lines. I really don't think that there are any absolutely correct and exclusive head markings. Those that may be specified in the judging guides and other references are merely those head markings that have been observed at certain positions on known-original cars. All it really means is that the referenced head markings are correct; it doesn't mean that any other headmarkings are "incorrect" or non-original.
I don't know what sort of requirements or judging penalties might be involved for "non-conforming" fastners, though.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Thanks for the advise. I am very sure they are original. All of the suspension components are obviously original with the exception of the shocks. They are old Monroematics painted a grey-green color. If the non-NCRS two previous owners were going to change fasteners, I would expect the garden variety slick head hardware store types. Thanks again!Comment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Thanks for the advise. I am very sure they are original. All of the suspension components are obviously original with the exception of the shocks. They are old Monroematics painted a grey-green color. If the non-NCRS two previous owners were going to change fasteners, I would expect the garden variety slick head hardware store types. Thanks again!Comment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob-----
Yes. However, don't get the idea that all GM PRODUCTION fastners were of the "indented-head" variety. Many were, but just as many were of the "slick-head" variety. When one encounters those, the issue of originality becomes "dicier". In fact, for those fastners, the GM PRODUCTION fastners and those sold in hardware stores during the period may have been the same, INCLUDING headmarkings.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob-----
Yes. However, don't get the idea that all GM PRODUCTION fastners were of the "indented-head" variety. Many were, but just as many were of the "slick-head" variety. When one encounters those, the issue of originality becomes "dicier". In fact, for those fastners, the GM PRODUCTION fastners and those sold in hardware stores during the period may have been the same, INCLUDING headmarkings.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Thanks Joe. I understand what you are saying. When I mentioned a slick head cap screw, I was referring to the typical grade 2 fastener one finds in the corner hardware store. they have no markings on the head whatsoever and are sometimes referred to as "slick heads." Being a rookie, I find the chart Paragon publishes is very useful. Good point and again, thanks!Comment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Thanks Joe. I understand what you are saying. When I mentioned a slick head cap screw, I was referring to the typical grade 2 fastener one finds in the corner hardware store. they have no markings on the head whatsoever and are sometimes referred to as "slick heads." Being a rookie, I find the chart Paragon publishes is very useful. Good point and again, thanks!Comment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob-----
Oh, I thought that you just meant "non-indented-head". What you're talking about is SAE Grade 2 fastners. Believe it or not, there are even a few of these used in PRODUCTION. VERY, VERY few, but there are a few. One original application where I have seen this type of fastner used is for the 2 long carburetor mount bolts for 68+ Q-Jets.
I would not use a Grade 2 fastner for ANY automotive application, though.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob-----
Oh, I thought that you just meant "non-indented-head". What you're talking about is SAE Grade 2 fastners. Believe it or not, there are even a few of these used in PRODUCTION. VERY, VERY few, but there are a few. One original application where I have seen this type of fastner used is for the 2 long carburetor mount bolts for 68+ Q-Jets.
I would not use a Grade 2 fastner for ANY automotive application, though.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob - I agree with Joe that you don't want to change things that you believe or know are original just because the judging manual describes a certain item because there are always new things being observed when more cars are looked at. But at the same time if you haven't owned the car since dirt, it becomes more difficult to convince a judge that the part is original if it differs from the typically observed configurations. But as, I said there are lessons to be learned for both owners and judges. Anyway, the WB2C bolt headmarking was usually found on the front sway bar linkage bolt. A WB headmarking was used after 1967 and more recent GM replacment linkage bolts had a D headmarking. Indented head bolts were used on the brackets that held the front sway bar bushing and I've seen both E and anchor headmarking with an integral split-ring lock washer and are typically zinc plated. The bolts for the lower front shock absorber mounting also have the E headmarking with an integral flat washer and are phosphated. PeteComment
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Re: Nuts & Bolts
Bob - I agree with Joe that you don't want to change things that you believe or know are original just because the judging manual describes a certain item because there are always new things being observed when more cars are looked at. But at the same time if you haven't owned the car since dirt, it becomes more difficult to convince a judge that the part is original if it differs from the typically observed configurations. But as, I said there are lessons to be learned for both owners and judges. Anyway, the WB2C bolt headmarking was usually found on the front sway bar linkage bolt. A WB headmarking was used after 1967 and more recent GM replacment linkage bolts had a D headmarking. Indented head bolts were used on the brackets that held the front sway bar bushing and I've seen both E and anchor headmarking with an integral split-ring lock washer and are typically zinc plated. The bolts for the lower front shock absorber mounting also have the E headmarking with an integral flat washer and are phosphated. PeteComment
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