I never sausage a thing

**Patrick H.** · April 14, 2002, 12:13 PM

Sure you have.

Jerry,

What surprises you? The fact that he spent more on the paint job than anyone should have? The fact that the rear exhaust hangers are still visible? The fact that the rest of the car needs as much attention as he put into the paint? The fact that the listing person got the transmission type wrong? The fact that they called a Corvette "American Steel"?

Or is it the fact that someone is brazen enough to advertise a VIN as a way to get rid of title problems? I know of another 1963 convertible with a similar "problem" but that doesn't stop people from buying/selling/showing them as original once the switch has been made.

Come on, Jerry. None of this surprises you at all. We just get to see a lot more of it thanks to eBay.

Patrick

**Patrick H.** · April 14, 2002, 12:13 PM

Sure you have.

Jerry,

What surprises you? The fact that he spent more on the paint job than anyone should have? The fact that the rear exhaust hangers are still visible? The fact that the rest of the car needs as much attention as he put into the paint? The fact that the listing person got the transmission type wrong? The fact that they called a Corvette "American Steel"?

Or is it the fact that someone is brazen enough to advertise a VIN as a way to get rid of title problems? I know of another 1963 convertible with a similar "problem" but that doesn't stop people from buying/selling/showing them as original once the switch has been made.

Come on, Jerry. None of this surprises you at all. We just get to see a lot more of it thanks to eBay.

Patrick

**Mike Yager** · April 15, 2002, 10:08 AM

Is that legal?

Is it legal to change out the VIN like this and represent the car as having no title problems? It seems like this change would be hard to detect.

**Mike Yager** · April 15, 2002, 10:08 AM

Is that legal?

Is it legal to change out the VIN like this and represent the car as having no title problems? It seems like this change would be hard to detect.

**Patrick H.** · April 15, 2002, 12:03 PM

Re: Is that legal?

I don't think that once you do this to hide a "title problem" that the morality of whether or not it is legal matters any more to the one who does it.

Legal? No. Performed? Yes. Identifiable? Tough. Now the frame number and engine VIN derivative no longer match, but....

Patrick

**Patrick H.** · April 15, 2002, 12:03 PM

Re: Is that legal?

I don't think that once you do this to hide a "title problem" that the morality of whether or not it is legal matters any more to the one who does it.

Legal? No. Performed? Yes. Identifiable? Tough. Now the frame number and engine VIN derivative no longer match, but....

Patrick

**Ralph E.** · April 15, 2002, 01:05 PM

Re: Is that legal?

This can't be legal. PA must have some crazy title laws. Every car we own is subject to this type of lie. This is a very serious abuse of our sport.

**Ralph E.** · April 15, 2002, 01:05 PM

Re: Is that legal?

This can't be legal. PA must have some crazy title laws. Every car we own is subject to this type of lie. This is a very serious abuse of our sport.

**Patrick H.** · April 15, 2002, 02:57 PM

Re: Is that legal?

Ralph,

I lived in PA from 93-96, and I can tell you that swapping VIN's is not sanctioned there.

OWNING or SELLING the VIN (or should I say plate with title isn't illegal (I think). Swapping it - now that's where you've got the problem. But I know of at least two cars where it was done, and I still think the owners were foolish for doing it. This is especially true when I know one will someday be discovered...

Patrick

**Patrick H.** · April 15, 2002, 02:57 PM

Re: Is that legal?

Ralph,

I lived in PA from 93-96, and I can tell you that swapping VIN's is not sanctioned there.

OWNING or SELLING the VIN (or should I say plate with title isn't illegal (I think). Swapping it - now that's where you've got the problem. But I know of at least two cars where it was done, and I still think the owners were foolish for doing it. This is especially true when I know one will someday be discovered...

Patrick

**G B.** · April 15, 2002, 05:07 PM

Not even close.

I don't know of a state in which you can legally sell an open title without the vehicle.

I was hoping that someone in law enforcement would see that VIN auction and act on it.

**G B.** · April 15, 2002, 05:07 PM

Not even close.

I don't know of a state in which you can legally sell an open title without the vehicle.

I was hoping that someone in law enforcement would see that VIN auction and act on it.

**John H.** · April 15, 2002, 07:29 PM

Re: Not even close.

I reported it to eBay last night, and I expect they'll shut down the auction; we see this all the time (VIN plates and titles for sale on eBay) for 1st-Generation Camaros, and they shut them down in a timely manner when we report them. Federal law governs here, and it's a Federal Felony offense to sell a VIN plate.

**John H.** · April 15, 2002, 07:29 PM

Re: Not even close.

I reported it to eBay last night, and I expect they'll shut down the auction; we see this all the time (VIN plates and titles for sale on eBay) for 1st-Generation Camaros, and they shut them down in a timely manner when we report them. Federal law governs here, and it's a Federal Felony offense to sell a VIN plate.

I never sausage a thing

I never sausage a thing

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