The evolution of the NCRS

[Tom Sarno]

I had posted a question as to why Joe Tripoli's chassis restoration guide covered '53 to '72. It did not seem that the change in the frame style was that different on the '73 and '74 that they were excluded. I did not receive an answer to why this was.

After research and thought, I am guessing that the '72 was the cutoff point when the NCRS was formed in '74. It appears that '73 to '77 was grouped together and included at a later date after the writing of Joe Tripoli's book.(I figure that it was up to '77 based on the fact that the paint chip book groups it into these years) and the '78 to '82 was then included at some later date.

The question is, what were the dates that the different years were brought into the NCRS?

Thanks

Tom

[Don H.]

Re: The evolution of the NCRS

Tom, When NCRS was formed it was solid axle only (53-62). The first year of judging for each group was: 53-62 1974, 63-67 1978, 68-72 1985, 73-77 1993, 79-82 1996 Don H.

[Mike Yager]

Re: The evolution of the NCRS

Interesting information. Based on recent history, it would appear that the early C4s will be included soon. Any thoughts/rumors in this regard?

[Bill W.]

Re: The evolution of the NCRS

Mornin' Tom,

For a good read on our early history, get ahold of Gary or Erik in Cincinnati and have them send you the 25th anniversary issue (if it's still available) of the "Restorer". Should be required reading for all of us. Have a good one! Bill

[Wendell Allen]

Re: The evolution of the NCRS

Be glad to chime in, although I'm not sure we ought to be talking about this on the technical board.

From a mathematical standpoint, the first year of judging for past year groups ranged anywhere from 11 to 16 years after the last year of the group, with 13.2 being the average. So Mike has a point there.

Further, the year groups previously judged in many ways overlapped. For example, the differences between the early '70's cars (Shark's with chrome) and the mid/late '70's cars (Shark's sans chrome) were to a large extent cosmetic or detailed in nature. But they were the same in many ways, and many of the parts functionally interchange. My point here is that the NCRS has broken generations out for admission purposes in the past (the C3's in the above example), so we can do this with the C4's also. We wouldn't have to wait until a mathamatical 13.2 years past the last C4 in '96 before we begin taking some of the C4's under our wings. But the obvious question here is what would be used as the basis for the break.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that the aftermarket is readily providing parts for the C4's that they are also providing for the older cars. Things like seat covers, door panels, instrument clusters, and screw kits. These types of parts aren't generally provided for the newer cars for obvious reasons. So the market is beginning to react to the early C4's the same way we are the older cars - many want to put the cars back together as closely to original as possible. There wouldn't be a market for these parts if this weren't the case.

The first C4 was a revolutionary car and the first year to bring Chevrolet in line with the competition in a long time. In fact, it did such a job on them that the SCCA effectively ask the "new" Corvette to go play in their own sandbox with the exclusive challenge. And it took years for the competition such as Nissan's 300ZX, Mazda's RX7, Lotus's Esprit, and Mitsu's 3000GT VR4 to catch up. This is exactly the kind of innovation our early cars were noted for in their generations and has endeared them to us. The C4 deserves no less recognition from our organizagion - when it's time.

Also, when you look at how the C4 drives and compares technologically to the C5, there's quite a difference. Not only has this proven true from my experience, but both the market and journalist who review these cars for a living have made clear the differences in the two generations. And the car won a number of COTY awards, most notably Motor Trend's.

It may be obvious to us that there is a clear break between the C3, C4, and C5 generations, but for the purpose of this discussion I believe it bears repeating, hence the previous two paragraphs.

And the fact remains that we're going to have to bring our club up to the digital age as far as the cars are concerned and allow them in sooner or later. The valid question is when. Most of us are getting up enough in years (well, at least you are, Dale) that we're on occasion joking about it here on the discussion board. And our apprehension of yuppies has been well documented. But even if we don't have this in common with the younger "kids" who are the primary drivers of these cars, they're the ones who are going to one day be our Lucia's, William's, Pearman's, McComas's, and so on. They chose these cars in part because they grew up with them just like we chose our cars for that same reason to at least some extent. These guys and gals deserve their avenue for bonding just like we do. And what better place to do it before they start butchering their cars and our automotive heritage at the influence of other clubs or their inherent, God given, and constituionally protected need for speed?

And how many of us NCRS members own C4's? I've looked at a lot of the photos of local NCRS club member's cars and a huge number of them are C4's. for example, just check out the Houston and Dallas club's web sites. Both are NCRS groups, yet a large percentage of the members own C4's. Yet they have no formal, NCRS endorsed avenue for persuing the preservation of their cars as they came from the factory. Are we ready to start talking about these cars here on "our" board and seeing them at "our" judging meets?

A case could be made that the generally accepted time passage for cars to be considered classics is about 25 years. The insurance industry also generally follows this guideline. However, the NCRS hasn't (obviously) made being a "classic" a requirement in the past so I don't believe this should be a factor if we're going to be consistent.

But in addition to the question of when to add them, is the question of how. One of the things that has drawn me to the NCRS is that it's an intimate group. Even though there is some butting of heads now and then, we all have the same basic vision for our cars, the purpose behind the orgainzation, and our comfort level with how things are run here. Will it continue this way once we bring in the C4's? Or is the club getting big enough that we're going to have to begin thinking of new ways to conduct our business? The web page is a recent example of this. As we see more request for information on it, will we want to see the board broken into year groups for the cars? We've already had to break out the technical from the non technical. And I'm sure there are other areas of the club that may be influenced like this. And if we start to make changes to accomodate this, how will we do it in a way that preserves the closeness that many of us share?

And will the C4 group, once they come aboard, be able to provide the additional resources we need to continue as a viable club, or will they simply be a drain on the existing orgainzation? We've all seen the discussion that went on regarding the admission of people to the NCRS meets without charging high/late fees for it. The original purpose behind the fees to discourage late comers that the resources to support judging, banquets, and awards cerimonies weren't planned for. This remains a valid concern regardless of the discussions to the contrary. And we have to make sure this concern continues to be addressed as the organization expands.

All, I've owned a C1, two C3's, two C4's, spent a lot of time in my older brother's C2, and lust for a C4 ZR1 or Callaway. The heritage is unmistakable and we're going to have to make the link sooner or later. In fact we should want to. Mike brought up a great question and I believe it really deserves our sincere consideration pretty soon if not now. Your thoughts?

[Edward M.]

Re: The evolution of the NCRS

I believe that NCRS already has a group of people looking into the preparation of judging manuals for C4 cars. I don't know the details, but generally speaking, cars are not considered for judging until the manuals are ready.

I would sort of expect the C4 years to be broken down into groups. Something like 84-89 as one group, then 90-96 as another group. I am not sure what the people actually looking at this issue are thinking.

C4 cars are coming. I have a 1990 Bowtie candidate. I wonder how long I will have to wait before I can get it judged as such?