I have recently seen two '67's with ac and ps with engine code suffix HT. I have read that these should have suffix HP (327/350 with ac and ps). HT is for cars without ac and ps. Is it possible that these cars are nonetheless legitimate with these accessories and code despite this? One of these cars was well documented with tank sticker among other things. Of course there are many forgeries and undoubtedly ac and ps were added to cars when restored to make them more desirable. But, what engine suffix code would a car get that had ac and no ps or vice versa for example? Certainly, some "generic" 327/350 cars went down the assembly line only later in the process to have ac and ps added upon a customers subsequent order. Many engines were built at the factory I'm sure in anticipation of a certain demand and it wouldn't surprise me if some HT blocks were put in ac cars. Does anyone have any specific knowledge about this? Does anyone own such a car with incontrovertible documentation of an ac/ps car with HT code (been in the family since new??)?
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
According to the Corvette Black Book the suffix is hand-stamped into the engine during assembly. By that time the usage of the engine should be certain. The book also goes on to say that mistakes could be made and if spotted they would be ground off and corrected. I would guess that it is more likely that someone added ac or power steering. -
Re: C2 engine code suffix
HT stands for 327/350, the optional special high performance engine. HP stands for PS & AC. Are you saying that a 327/300 with PS & AC would have a suffix code of HP and that a 327/350 having PS & AC would also carry a suffix code of HP ?
The very same code? I do not think it would operate that way. That 327/350 is sure to be a HT code, IMHO. In fact the 327/350 cars you have examined do in fact carry a HT code with the PS & AC. Changing a non-air 1967 Corvette to an air car is a very difficult process. I seriously doubt much of that was going on circa 1967. Even today it is much easier to find an air car and convert the motor to a L-79 than to start with a L-79 car and convert it to AC. I hope this helps with your concern.Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
The suffix code was stamped at Flint Engine, in the same gang-stamp holder as the plant I.D. and the date (i.e., V0601HT); at that point nobody knew which individual car it was going in, but the engine was configured at that point for a specific option combination. There was some previous discussion several months ago (check the archives) on the subject of L-79 engine substitutions at St. Louis betweeen "HT" and "HP" usages, as they were almost identical.Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
Thanks bob. I guess my question is this: The most recent car I saw was a '67L79 with AC and PS and had an HT suffix. I saw the tank sticker which clearly showed that it came with AC and PS. I checked all the numbers on the block and all the date codes, block casting number and VIN are correct and dated correctly with the trim tag. Therefore, I am inclined to think that this is the original block. This leads me to the conclusion that some HT blocks were in fact put in AC/PS cars without bothering to change the stamp when these were added. The only other explanation is that someone forged the numbers on the block but screwed up when it came to stamping the correct suffix. I don't think so.Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
Noland Adam's Vol. 2 page 442 ENGINE CODES (327CID) Lists HP as base 300hp with C60 and N40. The book also lists HT as L79 350hp with manual trans.
Are you saying that there are documented cases of L79's with C60 and N40 stamped HP ? Hmmm?!Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
Jack -
No, I'm saying that there have been instances where allegedly-original 67's have been seen that were non-optioned L-79's with "HP"-code engines (for A/C & P/S) instead of the "HT" engine (for non-optioned cars). If "HT" engines were still in a rail car from Flint, it would be a simple matter for the Resident Engineer to approve a Local Deviation to temporarily substitute "HP" engines "in order to maintain production" (famous phrase in assembly plants). "Local Deviations" were an everyday occurrence as long as a suitable substitute part could be found that was functionally equivalent until the released part could be found (bad inventory counts, transportation failures, scheduling screwups, specifications errors, assemblers using different fasteners because "they work better" causing shortages, etc.). Happened all the time instead of shutting the line down and sending the troops home early, still does today. These were all documented, but were usually hand-written and existed only in the office files of the Chief Inspector, Materials Manager, Resident Engineer, and a copy went to the releasing engineer at Chevrolet Engineering. The form showed the parts involved, reason for the substitution, and starting and ending VINs of the range of cars involved. The mis-usages that CAUSED the need for Local Deviations were not documented, as "the system" didn't know about part mis-usages until they resulted in a non-forecast shortage of the mis-used part. Assembly is a VERY complicated business, and it's a miracle that it worked as well as it did in those days of primitive computer systems and inventory control.Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
John
Are you aware of any instances where an HT coded engine was substituted for a car that should have had an HP code "in order to keep the assembly line moving? Do you personally know of any such cars?Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
Ray -
No, I haven't seen any personally that I could say are "documented", but I'd say it's possible; after spending 37 years in assembly plants, there are LOTS of things that are "possible". Stockchasers put the material on the line, and assemblers put those parts on the cars, and nobody took any notice of dates or markings.Comment
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Re: C2 engine code suffix
John,
Thanks for responding. Since this car was completed in July, '67 I wondered if they just used the 327/350 engines that they had available at the end of the '67 run without concern for HT or HP code. I am purchasing this car and although I have a fully legible tank sticker and protecto-plate and complete ownership history, one can never be certain. It is one of the better documented cars I have been looking at in my price range. Every other number and date on the engine is correct though so I'll go with the "possibility" that the HT is one of those assembly line things. Thanks.Comment
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