Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427? - NCRS Discussion Boards

Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

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  • Mark S.
    Expired
    • May 31, 2000
    • 13

    Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

    I am considering converting my '67 427 coupe, unrestored, to an electronic ignition to get better performance and reliability. What systems would you recommend that would keep the engine looking as stock as possible and give the increased performance? I don't want to modify the engine or drill any holes in the engine compartment to covert the ignition.

    Other than not having a stock engine are there any other drawbacks from doing this? I plan to keep the original distributor and coil for originality purposes.

    Comments and suggestions are welcome.
  • Pat Bush

    #2
    Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

    Mark:

    You have a couple of options as I recall. You can purchase a electronic ignition unit that literally replaces the points and bolts into your existing distributor. That option eliminates the necessity of replacing the distributor and offers more reliability than points. These have been around forever (I remember my dad doing this conversion on several points cars in the mid to late 70's). I am looking at a couple of these kits from Eckler's (although I've seen them elsewhere too) running around 180.00

    Your second option is to purchase a replacement distributor. If you want an original look Mallory and MSD make a direct electronic replacement although they are not really HEI. A HEI conversion is also available. These are more pricey though -- running around 375 to 500 depending on your selection.

    I like to keep things as original looking as possible so I would most likely go with the conversion kit but that is just me.

    Hope this helps! Pat

    Comment

    • David Hyman #27118

      #3
      Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

      Petronics has the most popular kits on the market. They have two versions and the easiest to install is the Lobe Sensor Version. Remove your points & condensor and unit installs in place of them, it is triggered by the breaker cam. You do not need to remove the dist. to install, can use your coil also. Can purchase from Summit or Jegs for about $79.00.

      I use their older shutter wheel version because the new one was not available when I purchased it, works fine.

      Comment

      • Michael W.
        Expired
        • April 1, 1997
        • 4290

        #4
        Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

        Mark,

        Just to clarify, the electronic conversion kits mentioned do not improve engine performance in any way, as they still make use of the stock distributor,cap,coil,leads,plugs etc.

        You should also be aware that while they offer greater durability (should last forever) the reliability and effect is worse then points and condensers. Although the failure of these units is rare, when they do go you have no warning and the engine cuts out dead, usually with no road side repairs possible. At least with points and condensers you normally get an extended warning and can jury rig a fix to get you home.

        Comment

        • Doug Flaten

          #5
          Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

          I put an MSD ignition box on my '61. It has dual carbs and a big cam and it continually fouled plugs. Some day I'll fix or reduce the running rich problem. The MSD unit is keeping the plugs clean and smoothed the idle out. Engine also pulls harder. I used the points to trigger the MSD box. I was able to hide the box behind the kick panel and all you see in the engine are a couple of extra wires. Last I checked, Pertronix did not have a points conversion for the dual point distributors. However, I recently put the Pertronix conversion on an old 6-banger Mustang with an MSD box. For some reason, the points were only lasting about 500 miles. The points were not burning or pitted but when they were replaced, performance improved. The conversion kit made a big difference in acceleration and reduced misfires. I still may be going through caps and rotors faster than I should but time will tell.

          Comment

          • Mike S.
            Expired
            • September 30, 1999
            • 91

            #6
            Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

            Mark -

            I put a Pertronix unit on my '66 BB about six months ago and I'm very happy with it. I'll have to disagree with one of the other members however - my car runs better with the Pertronix, much less fouling of the plugs at low RPMs.

            Stock appearance and better-than-stock performance - a great product. Here's a link to the Pertronix site: http://www.pertronix.com

            Good luck with the project.

            Mike S

            Comment

            • Bill Lloyd #33481

              #7
              Re: Electronic ignition conversion for '67 427?

              Mark,

              Pertronix is the way to go. In addition, you can purchase a stronger coil (50KV). This will allow you to increase the plug gap by .005 to .010. However, If you really want to increase your HP and reliability, go to HEI with an aftermarket chip set. These are stable to 7000 rpm. Lots of spark for your BB.

              Bill

              Comment

              • Duke W.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • January 1, 1993
                • 15610

                #8
                Electronic ignition should work better

                I don't know how the Pertronix is designed, but if it's like the 25 year old HEI it should increase the dwell at high revs and result in more ignition energy. It's available ignition energy, not coil voltage, that provides a "hot" spark. High voltage coils are snake oil!

                The other advantage of an electronic conversion is no point bounce. This can be somewhat overcome with the high breaker tension points, but electronic switching should provide more accurate timing, in addition to more energy and no loss of "dwell" due to point bounce.

                I can make a single point work to 7000 revs, but the plugs and secondary ignition conponents must be near perfect. An electronic system will provide more energy margin to make up for losses due to degraded components.

                As far as the reliability issue is concerned, you can always keep an old uniset points in the tools and spares box next to the jack. The HEI on my Cosworth Vega has failed three times in 68K miles - the pickup coil, the module, and the primary harness out of the distributor. The last one I was able to jury rig to get home, but the first two times I was stuck. (I now carry a complete HEI distributor and 9/16" wrench in the spare tire well. It even has the right date code, and I can swap it out in less than five minutes.) I also had a TI fail twice on my SWC, and I'm glad it's back on the '67 L-88 from whence it came. I've never heard of a Pertronix failing.

                Duke

                Comment

                • Michael W.
                  Expired
                  • April 1, 1997
                  • 4290

                  #9
                  And there's the rub-

                  The Pertronix unit and similar IS NOT 'electronic ignition' in the conventional sense (HEI) in any way shape or form.

                  It is simply an device that does electronically what the points and condenser do mechanically. There is no characteristic of the unit that increases discharge current to the plugs. While it can be argued that the dwell time is potentially longer, this has no practical effect on engine performance as the remaining stock components are the weak link that inhibits any extra horsies that a better spark could unlease.

                  I have seen many cases where people have claimed improved performance, but this is usually associated with the substitution of a Pertronix unit in place of wornout points and condenser. Yes, it runs better than it did , but a new set of points would have achieved the same thing.

                  I remember reading a bike magazine article in the late '70s when identical devices were brought out for motorcycles. The conclusion was no difference in performance when doing a blind A-B test. I later confirmed this with a temporary installation on my '81 CR1100R (testosterone-filled cousin of one of your beasties). I had two hard failures on my original-owner '79 Honda LeadWing and went back to the original points setup.

                  Reliability aside, the nice thing about the Pertronix units are they are set-and-forget.

                  Comment

                  • Duke W.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • January 1, 1993
                    • 15610

                    #10
                    Re: And there's the rub-

                    With a constant dwell angle energy and voltage drop off with higher revs, because there is insufficient time to current saturate the coil. A perfectly operating single point will provide the same observed power as an electronic ignition, but will have less margin as components degrade. Even if the Pertronics doesn't increase the dwell with revs as the old HEI does it will certainly maintain a constant dwell. Conversely, breaker points, especially the standard 19-23 oz. type will loose dwell as you get up over 4000 to 4500 RPM because of bounce setting in. Eventually, the bounce will get so bad that the dwell angle will drop off rapidly causing insufficient ignition energy and voltage and the engine will begin to miss. This phenomenon is easy to check by revving the engine in neutral and watching the dwell meter. The "heavy duty" points with the 28-32 oz. arm tension will maintain dwell another thousand to 1500 revs higher, but will have a higher rate of rubbing block wear, so they will require more frequent adjustment.

                    A perfectly functioning single point will do the job, but their performance degrades quickly with useage, essecially on a SHP engine. The Pertronics may not increase ignition energy over a perfectly blueprinted single point distributor, but it should maintain peak performance almost indefinately.

                    Duke

                    Comment

                    • Duke W.
                      Beyond Control Poster
                      • January 1, 1993
                      • 15610

                      #11
                      P.S. Good bike choice, but...

                      do you mean an '81 CB1100R. I recall that the "R" was a gray market import from Europe. I have a U.S. spec '83 CB1100F - 22K miles, looks like new. Eighty-three was the last year of the classic "F" model with the air cooled 16-valve inline four and the only year it was 1047 cc in the U.S. The '82 "F" was a 900.

                      Duke

                      Comment

                      • Michael W.
                        Expired
                        • April 1, 1997
                        • 4290

                        #12
                        Agree, agree....

                        But most users 'claim' to have improved low (engine) speed performance, starting, mileage, plug life, idle, etc.etc.

                        I agree 100% with the high speed antics of a set of points, amazed that they last as long and work as well as they do.

                        Comment

                        • Michael W.
                          Expired
                          • April 1, 1997
                          • 4290

                          #13
                          Re: P.S. Good bike choice, but...

                          Yup, CB1100R. Sneaked it in from New Zealand, of all places. Less than 20,000 Km, 'lightly' raced in club events, never been dropped.


                          CB1100R owners club

                          Comment

                          • Michael W.
                            Expired
                            • April 1, 1997
                            • 4290

                            #14
                            Must go self-flagellate now for off topic post *NM*

                            Comment

                            • David Hyman #27118

                              #15
                              Re: Agree, agree....

                              When I installed my Petronics conversion, did it for the sole reason of not having to change points again. I did not notice any performance improvement over a new set of points & condensor, just the convenience of not needing to deal with them again. If the unit goes out on you on the road it is quite simple to change back to points & cond. if the Lobe Sensor Version is used.

                              Comment

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