Belts

[dale orris]

I have a 1965 corvette with 327/350 (L-79) engine. It nows has one Belt which handles the water pump and alternator. This car does not have AC or power steering. Is this the correct belt or should there be another shorter belt running the water pump only.
thanks for all advice

[Gary B.]

C2: L79 - Number of V-belts

Dale,

Well, the number of belts for 65-67 L79s w/o PS or A/C depends on whom you believe. I can tell you that my 66 L79 had two belts when I bought it some years ago; one belt going around the water pump pulley, the crankshaft pulley and the alternator and a second "captured" belt that went around just the water pump pulley and crankshaft pulley. Now, the lastest (3rd) edition of the 66 TI&GJ says that 327 cars w/o PS and w/o A/C should have just one belt. I believe the JG is incorrect. I've spoken with enough owners of 66 L79 cars to come to believe that the 2nd captured belt shows up too often to be incorrect. I'm guessing you're going to find the same controvesy for 65 L79 cars w/o PS and w/o A/C. So, what do you do? I know that people having their cars judges are removing the second belt. After all, it's redundant anyway, so why lose points for the sake of a redundant belt? It's one of those little things that bugs me to think I have to make my car less original to match up with the JG, but then again, there are other battles to fight.

Gary

[Gary B.]

PS to my last message

Dale,

What does the 1965 TIJG say about the number of belt for an L79 w/o P/S or A/C?
Also, have you talke with other owners of 65 L79 cars? You obviously are thinking there should be a 2nd belt based on some previous information. Where did this information come from?

Thanks,

Gary

[Tom Merkel]

Re: Belts

Dale- I am original owner, '67 L-79 (no power assists nor air).

It came with two belts, just as you described. One loops both alternator and water pump; one loops only water pump.

By the way, I have been running it with the one belt for years.

Tom

[Scott Marzahl]

Any info on P/S equipped cars

Do you guys have any info on P/S equipped cars. I beleive the AIM is in error as the extra pulley called out for the C/S to drive the power steering pump doesn't even fit into the 2 groove C/S pulley. Besides that, the cast iron P/S pulley lines up with the forward goove of the C/S pulley. So I think it should be one belt for the C/S, water pump and alt. Then one belt for the C/S, water pump and P/S.

Thanks for any comments.

[Tom Merkel]

Re: Any info on C-2 P/S equipped cars

Scott - My prior comments related to my non-power, non-air '67 L-79.

However, if it will help, the aft pulley is used for the CS/alt/water pump, while the forward pulley loops just the CS/waterpump.

Tom

[John L.]

Look at Nolands book - Page 359

If you take a look at Noland Adam's book on page 359 you will see a 1966 L-79 engine being lowered into a frame at the factory and the redundant water pump belt is on. The JG is wrong. The reason there is no redundant belt called for in the AIM is because it was already on the engine.

john lolli

[dale orris]

Re: PS to my last message

Gary,
In response to your question, I have looked in the 65 Judging Manual and I can't find a specific item relating to number of belts. It does reference the different companies and and different styles i.e., wrapped or cut belts..

I was at vettefest in Gatlinburg last week and talked to a gentleman from Virginia who has a very nice restored 63 SW. He was looking at my car and I was soliciting advice from him when he noticed the belt. I guess it may have been just his opinion but he said I needed another belt to prevent the possible slippage of the belt on the water pump, thus pumping less water thru the block.. I have never had anything but one belt since I have owned the car which is five years. And have never had a problem with overheating.....

thanks for your response Gary.. dale

[Gary B.]

John & Tom; how to convince JG revision team?

John, Tom,

How do we convince the 65-67 TIJG revision teams that there should be two belts
for L79 cars w/o P/S and A/C? I've contacted the 66 team leader and was essentially told that he believes the latest (3rd) edition of the 1966 JG is correct, when it states that 1 belt was used. Do you guys have any suggestions? Or should I just bite the bullet and cut off my second belt and leave it off for judging? I find this pretty frustrating.

Gary

[John L.]

I sent emails a while back to Morrison and Sinor

I have sent emails to Ray Morrison (66 Team leader) and heard nothing. I then sent an email to Roy Sinor explaining that I had contacted Morrison and heard nothing asking Roy to please take a look and give me an answer. We are preparing a car for a judging meet on Sunday -- I have heard nothing from Roy Sinor either. Very Frustrating !!!

[Tom Merkel]

Re: John & Tom; how to convince JG revision team?

Gary - I understand your frustration; comments later regarding the judging manual, etc.

Re: your immediate need to have it judged with one v. two belts, I suggest you stand your ground, show it with two, which accurately depicts how a '67 L-79, non-power, non-air was delivered off the lot. I certainly wouldn't cut one belt off.

I cannot say with any first-hand knowledge, however, how a '66 L-79 might have been delivered.

Tom

[Gary B.]

John/Tom: Response from Ray Morrison from 9/2002

John,

I received a response from Ray Morrison about 1 month ago and to paraphrase his response: 1) he was unaware of any controversy about the number of belts; 2) the situation (with regard to belts) was pretty straightforward; 3) the figure in the AIM (UPC 6, A4) shows the correct number and routing; and 4) he believes only a single belt was used.

I did not and do not feel that this response fairly acknowledged the observations of a number of owners of 65-67 L79 non-P/S, non-A/C cars with 2 belts and I've never heard any more from Ray on the topic. The issue of the number of belts with minimally optioned L79 cars has come up at least twice on the NCRS DB, but I really don't know how to foster an open minded discussion with the powers that be. frustrating indeed.

Gary

[Peter J.]

Re: John/Tom: Response from Ray Morrison from 9/20

Gary,

As you say this has come twice on the DB and I thought it would have been resolved by now. I have an unmolested -66 L-79 with two belts and have judged several L-79 cars over the years and all have had two belts. If the new judging manual says base option 1966 L-79 cars have only one belt then I say somebody has made a mistake.
If looking at cars coming down the assembly line in Nolands book or previous JMs can't clear this up I don't what can.

[Gary B.]

Pete: No, it's not cleared up

Pete,

The 3rd edition of the 66 TIJG says that all 327 cars with no P/S and no A/C
used one belt. The TIJG doesn't differentiate between 300 HP cars and 350 HP cars. Soooo, the judges going by the latest JG are saying that L79 cars w/o P/S
and w/o A/C are supposed to have one belt. You, me and several other believe this is incorrect. I do not know how to go about convincing the 66 TIJG revision team that there is mistake on this point in the 3rd edition. I don't know if any key revision team member follows the Technical DB or not, but no one on the revision team has come forward and said, yes, I think you're right and I'll bring up the issue to the revision team when next they meet to discuss potential problems with the TIJG. Until that happens, I don't see the situation with the incorrect information in the 66 TIGJ changing.

Gary

[Mike McKown]

From a practical point of view

If you were a manufacturing engineer and you wanted to install a belt wrapped around only the crank pulley and water pump pulley, what would be your assembly method and what belt tension spec would you adhere to? Further, if you were in service and you wanted to give a belt tension spec, how would you adjust the tesion? If you added the tolerance stacks in the belt, water pump, pulley block, crank, balancer, crank pulley and atmospheric pressure, you might come up with a belt that is banjo string tight or loose enough to fly off the pullys if there is no means to adjust tension.

Or am I missing something here?

Mike