67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

[Ken Mahoy]

Hi all - new guy here doing some research for a friend who's too busy to do it. In his garage sits a red, 67 coupe, 427 alum head car (don't know if big tank or not). When I was at Vettefest in Effingham a few weeks ago, both Nathan Sheets and Kevin McKay told me that only 16 were produced that year. Additionally, Kevin told me that he only had 12 of the 16 in his registry he keeps. I would like to verify this car (engine codes, body tag, axles codes, VIN etc) with your expertise. I somehow have my doubts that it's original, but you never know. This may be fun, and at the very least, a learning experience for me and the owner. I am not new to muscle cars at all, but am new to Corvettes and need your help. Please reply to this post or email me at mahoy78spyder@yahoo.com. Thanks in advance.

Ken

[Clem Z.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

my list says the suffix on the stamp pad would be IU or JH

[Norris W.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

At Bloomington in either 88 or 89 one of the "dealers" had a red L89 that he was claiming he knew for a fact was authentic. He was displaying a build sheet and claiming the car had THE original motor. I thought it was a restamp at a glance, but the work was pretty good and I wasn't positive. A close friend who had a car there with mine both of those years also, was standing there trying to make offers and I was saying, "not so fast, let's do a little research". If I remember right the asking price was in the range of $175K to $200K. Anyhow, we came home and did some title work (had the Vin run back to the MSO) and the original dealer was still in business and an employee retrieved the records from old files upstairs. It turned out that the car was delivered as a small block and wasn't even red originally. This car was offered for sale by a dealer in Nebraska. I furnished him with the information (although limited it) and a promise that if the car ever surfaced I'd also furnish it to the new owner, along with a statement that the dealer had been furnished with it before the sale also. Even so, he continued to advertise it in Hemmings for several more months. If the car you're describing came from Nebraska 12 or 13 years ago I may can still find the info in my old files.

[Ken Mahoy]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

I apologize as I am not sure where to look for the "stamp pad" to find that code... again, new to Corvettes. I'll be glad to look that up to see if it matches one of those two codes. Thanks.

[Duke W.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Look on the right front corner of the engine block deck - just ahead of the forward end of the cylinder head. There should be a date code/engine code stamped by the Tonawanda engine plant, and if the engine is original to the car, a "VIN derivative" stamped by the St. Louis assembly plant should be visible that will include the VIN sequence number.

If you can read and post all the characters, someone will decode them for you.

Duke

[Ken Mahoy]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Thanks Duke.... (I knew you hung around this club too, but just never visited it before) Did you make the CV Reunion at Watkins Glen this year? I missed it this year... was deployed w/ the Air Force for this little war on terror - am back now.

Anyway, I'll spend some time in the garage and get some numbers off the car to post here, short of posting the VIN publicly should it be the real thing.

Additionally, I can probably just get the quickest answer by posting where it was sold at auction last year and I'm sure someone here will probably recognize it right away and know some history on the car. It was at Auburn last year and here is the link to the auction results. http://www.kruseinternational.com/re...SULTS=1&PAGE=4
I'm guessing by the obscure description and also by the low price that this is an L71 car w/ the L89 heads added at a later time (not factory original) Anyone recognize this car?

Ken

[Ken Mahoy]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Norris, do you have the VIN from that "clone" by chance. Is possible to have it emailed to me privately so I can compare it to the car he has? I think it is entirely possible this is the same car. Also, see my reply to Duke Williams as well. Do you recognize that car from Auburn?

Ken

[Norris W.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Ken, I'm not going to say for sure that I don't have the VIN still, but it'd sure take some digging. My friend, who was interested, had it in his stuff, but he's closed his business. I had it in my files, but I've moved that office too. My FBI agent buddy who came up with the MSO records showing the original owner and selling dealer has since retired. I don't know if between the three of us we could still find a VIN number or not. The details that I remember for sure are that the original selling Chevy dealer was in North or South Carolina and had changed names. There was an insurance agency in the small town with the same name as the dealer's original one and that wild goose chase turned up the dealership. There were relatives of the original dealer still in the dealership. The Corvette dealer with this car at Bloomington was from Omaha Nebraska and the car was advertised in Hemmings multiple times.

I had my L88 at Bloomington in 88 and my L89 there in 89 (both 69's). My friend took his 67 435 Coupe there both years. I just can't remember which year the red fake L89 was there. The thing that is crystal clear in my mind is the Nebraska dealer's stedfast insistance that the car was original and his refusal to quit advertising it as so, even when supplied with information documenting it as not a factory L89.

One other comment: When you start fooling with L88's, L89's, LS6's, etc, etc, the block stamping means almost nothing when it comes to documenting originality. The state of the art has become so good as far as restamps and the value of these cars is so great that any number of people can supply a block with the proper date code, casting number and stamping to look VERY correct. Someone has even recently been advertising "aged build sheet reproductions" on this as well as other internet websites lately. I've always thought I couldn't be fooled with a restamp if I pulled a head and looked at the full deck surface on that side, but I saw a block a year or so ago that might have tested that theory. Also, there are also blocks floating around that were never stamped at the factory, so the block machine marks are authentic and with proper stamping will be virtually impossible to detect. I'm aware of one 67 L88 that has such a block that was found with a virgin, unstamped pad. (this was at least a real car with the motor long gone)

By the way, I never did get that link to Kruse to work and was only able to find 2002 stuff through their home page.

[Craig S.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Norris - it works if you cut/paste the entire URL into an open browser window...the hyperlink only contains part of the complete URL...Craig

[G B.]

Description written by a lawyer

That auction description would stand up in court to support the sale of a fake L89. It doesn't say "original block" or "factory L89". It just says "matching numbers" and "date-coded aluminum heads".

It's sad that legal weasel words have become so common in America. Much of the blame for the spread of this language goes to former President Slick Willie who "never had sexual relations with that woman" and "can't recall" all his criminal activity as a lawyer. American law schools need to add a course entited "Shame, and when to feel it".

[Norris W.]

Re: 67 427 alum. head coupe - for real?

Ken, after looking at the auction results page, and assuming that the 58250 is the sale price and not a stock number, it wouldn't be realistic to believe that this is a factory original L89 which should bring 3 to 4 times this price if in original and documented condition. I notice that they list the condition as 97. I doubt that anybody with that company knows the difference, based on what I've seen with their online E Bay auctions lately, but if this were just a plane ole 435 horse car in a high 90 point condition by NCRS standards the price would obviously be higher than the sale price, even with the added alum. heads.

[Wayne K.]

AMEN *NM*

[Ken Mahoy]

Re: Description written by a lawyer

NM that was my thought as well. By "obscure" description, I meant, just truthful enough to be technically correct, but without saying it's an original L89 car. I've been around SuperCars (Yenkos, COPO's, Baldwin-Motion, etc.) and been involved in their discussions to know all too well how for sale ads can be worded so as to deceive without lying. There is an Ebay ad out there now for Motion Camaro convertible that says "This is an undocumented Motion Camaro" Well, no duh... My Monza Spyder is an undocumented "Motion Monza Spyder too!.. just because I didn't pay Joel Rosen the $1500 to come certify my car doesn't qualify me to say it's an "undocumented Motion car". That's implying that it "is". Besides, why wouldn't someone pay $1500 to up the value of their car another $50,000 anyway?! Frustrating, I know. Either way, my friend who owns the "replica" L89 just likes the car for what it is, and was driving it at 135mph on New Years Day this past year. *grin* (360 days out of the year it's in an air conditioned personal museum of musclecars however) I'll still try to get some numbers from the car just to see if it's at least an original L71. Thanks everyone for your help so far.

Ken