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I'm geting the same reponse I'v gotten over the years. Clameing my 67 BB hood is some how Made up.I got it 25 years ago with my 57 cascade FI Auto,P/W,P/T Corvette.I get with my 55 Gray Corvette and my new 55 Copper Bubble top Corvette,thats why you find my Corvettes that I take in the parking lot.
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Re: Odd Car OUT
Now-Now Roy. No one has said it wasnt original. I just asked if you would give us some documentation. I would love to once and for all, put this to rest, but as of yet, I have never seen one that was unconditionally proven to be original, and frankly have a hard time believing the story. Its difficult to believe that with all the smallblock hoods made over the years that they would just happen to have a SNAFU just when the hood of all hoods was available to be substituted. And the fact that only 35 of them were substituted makes it more suspicious. Just think about it they were making almost 50% BB cars at the time. If they knew that they would be out of SB hoods for maybe two days, it would have simple to delay their production for a couple of days. Lets face it, there are multitudes out there that are licking their chops for the chance to put that hood on their SB car. The lack of documentation has not stopped many of them. I personally would like to see it proven, one way or the other. It would be a good addition to the knowledge base, but keeping it in the parking lot and not letting it be seen, is not helping that end. -
Re: Odd Car OUT
I don't have any of my Corvettes judged any more, but don't NCRS recognize the 67 BB on a small block 67???? Noland said yes. And I'm not being a poop-poop with NCRS, it's still the best!Comment
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I love a good controversy
For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the background leading to this big-block hoods on small-block cars thread, read Noland's Vol 2 (page 384). In my opinion, the story (annecdote ?) sounds logical, but cannot / should not stand as gospel without GM documentation. Here's a few calculated #'s to help us examine the plausibility of the incident, and hopefully, stir the pot a little more.
Total '67 Corvette St. Louis production rate in this late Feb, early March timeframe is about 2900 cars per month; breaks down to about 112 cars per working day. Approx. forty-two percent of these would have been big blocks, anyway, and all of these BB bodies would have come from the S-body (St.Louis) line. This leaves about 64 small block Corvettes produced per day, of which roughly 56 of the bodies came from Ionia, Mich. (A-body line, contractually 50% of Corvette body production), leaving only 8 SB S-bodies / day for St.Louis. I assume that the Ionia labor strike was over by this time. Was A.O.Smith producing their own panels ?
Noland says the big-block hoods were installed on small-block cars for a period of 3 to 5 days, which, without corrective shifting of production, would translate into 24 to 40 of these "hybrid" cars. So what could St.Louis have done to aleviate the lack of SB hoods ? a) accelerate / exhaust all A-bodies in the basement, b) request Ionia ship all the extra SB hoods they could spare, c) [and most logical] - fill only BB production orders (ie. produce 8 more 427's a day) for the hood shortage period, d) produce S-bodies with BB hoods on the paint line, then remove and store these hoods for replacement on BB cars the following week; tape a sheet of plastic over the hood-less SB's in the holding yard at Union and National Bridge; replace the SB hoods when new stock available.
Were these hoods striped to coordinate with the interior ? Was no striping applied ? Either way, if these cars were to fill firm customer orders, there is little chance of the car being accepted at the dealer (yes, a minute percentage of SB buyers would have selected one of these monstrosities if they were on the order form -- I'm a pig-in-a-python man myself).
All of the above to postulate that Chevrolet had MANY options OTHER than to install BB hoods on SB cars for such a short period.
OK; have at me !Comment
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The path of least resistance...
Would have been to stick the wrong hood on the SB car and ship it. No delays, no bolting and unbolting, which would have been an annoying cost increase. I have seen minor examples of this cost-effective philosophy, using BB hoods on hand is not much of a stretch.Comment
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Re: I love a good controversy
Ok Wayne, Let's stir the pot! Early 1959 Corvettes ( as in serial numbers 3 & 4 & maybe others) had modified left over "ripple" hoods from 1958 production. Rumor, legend or outright bogus falsehood ? Input originated today in conversation with a new aquaintence who had been offered #4 for purchase in Canada. #4's owner claims some conversation with #3's owner in Fla. indicating a similar modified "ripple" hood on his car.
What do you guys think?Comment
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Re: The path of least resistance...
A.O. Smith-Ionia probably didn't have a problem with their SB hoods, as they were the hood supplier, and most likely had a lot more of them on hand (in racks, ready to ship) than St. Louis did when the mold was damaged (if it was damaged).Comment
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Re: I love a good controversy
I have never seen that early of a serial number. It would have been more likely that late 58s would have had a 59 hood. Although, that low of a number should have been built on the 58 line. Modified in what way? A whole skin or a patch? I do know that late 58s had 59 trunk lids.Comment
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Oh BOY
What is going on? Isn't Noland's book the GOSPEL? That's what I hear all the time!Documentation! Where? what about the 1958 Corvette being the color BLACK, the tin back headlights for 53-55 and the 54 also in BLACK, or the nuts and bolts we all argue about. Give me a brake.
For more then six years I wrote %99 of the articals that changed NCRS's thinking about many things that were not documented, in SACE, book called Stright Talk. I was the Editor!Had my diference with NCRS back then, but today NCRS is better and still the best Corvette Orginization in the world. Now I probably coused more trouble with members and NCRS. So I'll keep my mouth shut.Comment
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Re: The path of least resistance...
So John. How many hoods do you think that St. Louis had on hand at any one time? Wouldnt it seem that they would have a fair supply, that would have lasted a few days at least. Then if there were problems with supply there would be a little cushion.Comment
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Re: The path of least resistance...
Roy, We learn new things about these cars all the time. There are none of us that have seen every thing on every car. That is what this is all about,learning what was normal practice and what factory anomalies are out there. We have a judging standard that we go by. If a person shows up with something that is outside of those bounds, we have to be skeptical. But, if we can determine that it could have and did happen, we can treat that situation properly. You have the unique opportunity to prove to us that this thing did in fact happen. I would love to see detailed pictures of some of the critical areas in question, and know the history of the car to the original owner, etc. Can you supply us with that kind of documentation. Noland`s book is great, but it is not gospel.Comment
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Re: The path of least resistance...
Wayne NOLAND's been there ! did that! Read his book.
My last word on this!!!!!!!!!!Comment
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Re: I love a good controversy
Wayne,
I seem to recall that Noland's book says they were not striped. I don't have my copy of it here to lookup.
Bear with me for perhaps some stupid sentences but I need to spell things out for myself. I don't recall reading in Noland's book the cause of the problem with SB hood supplies. The cause was a problem with SB hood production in St Louis, correct? All BB bodies came from St Louis and 1/2 of the total Corvette bodies came from Ionia, Michigan. That means that somewhere around 8% of SB Corvettes have a St Louis body, correct? The bodies that came from Ionia included the SB hoods, correct?
Given all that, your list of St Louis options sounds good. Sure seems like there would have been other options than to make a "hybrid". I am suspicious though. Mine is a St Louis body build date of Feb 27. It has a SB hood with the support on the Drivers side. I have very little history but the one thing I do know is that the previous owner had a BB hood on it and the dealer I bought it from removed it and replaced it with a SB hood before I came upon it.
NickComment
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Re: I love a good controversy
The cause was a problem with SB hood production in St Louis, correct?
Nick -
The story as told in Noland's book was that a screwdriver was inadvertently dropped in the SB hood mold, which damaged the mold when it closed. This would have occurred at A.O. Smith-Ionia, as they manufactured both of the hoods, used the SB hoods on their body line, and shipped SB and BB hoods to St. Louis (St. Louis just took them out of a rack and put them on the car). I think we'll all be a lot older (and grayer, if that's possible) before anyone finds any documentation on this issue. If it happened, it would have been authorized by a "local deviation" at St. Louis, signed by the Resident Engineer, and a copy of that document would have gone to the Chevrolet Engineer at CEC who had design/release responsibility for the hood. These were just another of thousands of daily pieces of paper that wound up in engineers' filing cabinets, not in Engineering archives like drawings, and anyone who is likely to have remembered it is probably taking a dirt nap.Comment
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Re: I love a good controversy
Given that all the hoods were made in Ionia and that the story about the SB mold is true, it is very plausible that they ran out of SB hoods in St Louis. They then had 2 choices, stop SB production or keep it going by using BB hoods. I would bet the latter myself. However the 35 number that Roy noted just does not jive with 3-5 days of SB production. The number should be more like 200-300.
I have an email in to Noland Adams to see if he can shed any more light on this.
Yup, we may never know. I guess I should have my hood support moved over to the passenger side and be done with it.
NickComment
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