What is this engine really?

[Brian McIntyre]

I looked at a "completely original" base engine 61 today that has an engine that I am having trouble deciphering. On the pad the stamping is T0824DE. What is a "DE"? I do not see it in the Corvette Spec Guide. There was no VIN stamped on the pad. The block casting number is 3834810 and the castng date appears to be on the left side just above the casting number. The date appears to be F45. Due to the breather pipe, I could not see the right side of the block to see if there was a casting date there like there is on my 65. The intake manifold is 6882858 with what appears to be a casting date of J285.

Any help in determining what engine this really is would be greatly appreciated.

[Jack H.]

Re: What is this engine really?

If memory serves, the DE suffix points to a 283 block used in '58/59 and again in 64-69 for passenger car applications. In the early years (focus here because you find no VIN derrivative on the stamp pad and the practice didn't start until somewhere in the late 1960 era) the DE suffix pointed to a 283 cu in Turbo-Fire V8 installed into a passenger car with 185 HP, AT, and 2 Bbl carb.

Other resources (Chevy service, Chevy By The Numbers, Etc.) can be more specific about non-Corvette applications for assemblies and subassy's that had common thread and cross-over use on Corvettes. Bottom line, it's a real McCoy GM/Chevy power plant you're looking at, but not likely to be the factory original Corvette motor. Might run well and deliver years of satisfactory street use....

[Jack H.]

Re: What is this engine really?

Oh, Brian, a couple more items (tough to remember what you asked without flipping back and forth to the original post). Look again at the stamp pad. Is it really "T"XXXX versus "F"XXXX? If so, it implies the source of the engine was Tonawanda versus Flint which is not really right for Corvettes of this era. You'll be able to confirm this by getting the cylinder case casting date.

It will NOT be found on the LH rear apron where the cast number is. The cast date lives on the RH rear apron (yep, underneath the road draft tube -- welcome to the 'fun' judges enjoy). You can either remove the road draft tube (pretty simple) or slip a piece of paper underneath and pencil an impression of the cast date raise. Tonawanda blocks used an XX YY date cast sequence (XX=day, YY=year, E.g. '61') while Saginaw castings run through the Flint engine plant used a YY Y date format (XX=day, Y= last digit of the year, E.g 1=61).

[Wayne]

Re: What is this engine really?

I can't find the casting number in any of my reference books, either. What you do have on the engine serial stamping appears to denote an engine built in the Tonawanda NY plant on August 24th; ....only thing I could find was that in 1968 & 69 a "DE" code designated a 307ci engine with manual transmission, but as I stated, I can't find that casting number. According to the NCRS Pocket Guide, Tonawanda engines weren't used in Corvettes except briefly in 1965 (casting 3858180 and the date code would end in "65"); the casting number you gave (F45) would indicate it was cast June 4, in a year ending in "5"(ie, '55, '65, or '75). However, the lack of a VIN stamping on the engine pad (you don't mention one, so I assume there isn't one) may indicate it's a '55 engine, rather than '65 or '75. The 383xxxx block number, assigned when this particular block configuration was designed, is likely of approximately '55 to '62 vintage (in fact, some 1955 cylinder head casting numbers start with 383).

My best guess is a '55 passenger car or truck engine. Hopefully someone will have better reference material than I do. I'll keep looking.

[Wayne]

Re: What is this engine really?

Here's another monkey wrench: I thought I remembered an internet site that listed Chevy engine casting numbers.... there is: www.mortec.com. They show the 3834810 casting number as a '62-'66 number, which doesn't jive with:

A) the missing VIN stamp

B) the fact that Tonawanda engine casting dates are supposed to end with the 2-digit year (ie, "F465" not "F45").

[Brian McIntyre]

Re: What is this engine really?

Jack and Wayne,

I appreciate the information. This car is at a specialty car dealer and I have worn out my welcome as far as digging around this car. They think they have a real gem and are not real interested in knowing too much. Going back to pull the road draft tube would be a stretch at this point.

Jack is correct that is a GM, but most probably not the original.

The important thing is knowing what it is not. The radiator was a 3150916 (did not get the date code), the expansion tank is from a '69. I did not look at the transmission, rear end, carburetor or much else to see if they were correct.

At the right price, not the $27,800 they are asking, it could be lot of fun.

Thanks again for your quick help!!

[Joe L.]

Re: What is this engine really?

Brian----

Engine suffix code "DE" was used several times as follows:

1) 58-59 passenger cars with 283cid/170hp and powerglide 2) 64 Novas with 283cid/195hp and powerglide 3) 65-67 Chevelles and El Caminos with 283cid/195hp and powerglide 4) 68 Chevelle, Nova, El Camino with 307cid/200hp and powerglide 5) 69 Chevelle, Nova, El Camino, Camaro with 307cid/200hp and 4 speed

Considering that "DE" was limited to the above, your engine's assembly date must have been August 24, 1965. The "T" prefix indicates that it was machined and assembled at Tonawanda, New York. As other responders have noted, Tonawanda cast engine parts typically have the last 2 digits of the year in the casting date. However, I've seen some that didn't. Also, although most of the Tonawanda machined and assembled engines were also cast at Tonawanda, the parts could have been cast elsewhere. St, Catherines, Ontario(not far from Tonawanda) and Defiance, OH are two other possibilities. Look for a large "K" cast somewhere on the block. If so, it was cast at St. Catherines. If you find a large "T" cast somewhere(usually as part of "GM T", it was cast at Tonawanda.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I'll bet your engine was originally installed in a 195 hp 283-equipped Chevelle or El Camino with powerglide. There were a LOT of these cars made so there were lots of potential donors.