67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

First, there are no "repros". What the catalogue guys sell are OEM dial plates. Your NOS colors look a little out of line & your 6000 looks like the current OE plates. Service 6500 tachs were sold by GM well up into the 80's & would have had the part # stamped on the back.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

IMG_1143.jpg

First, there are no "repros". What the catalogue guys sell are OEM dial plates. Your NOS colors look a little out of line & your 6000 looks like the current OE plates. Service 6500 tachs were sold by GM well up into the 80's & would have had the part # stamped on the back.

Then the method of manufacturing OEM dial plates changed between the manufacture of the two NOS tachs I have. The 6500 tach has the same dial plate as the replacement dial plate Richard showed in post #7. The 6000 rpm tach has the same kind of dial plate as Richards original 67 tach and my original 67 tach. Those dial plates are different than the "current OEM dial plates."

Perhaps the color in the photo was distorted by my camera or lighting, the the color wasn't the issue. The originals and the 6000 NOS tach face were silk screened over a slightly grainy semi-gloss black. The current OEM replacements like the one Richard bought and the one on my 6500 NOS tach use some kind of decal over a glossier black background that looks very different from the 67 originals. The numbers and grid on the original style dial plates are slightly raised like on a high quality business card or silk screened object, while they are flat on the decal type "current OEM dial plates."

Attached is a picture of the box my 6500 rpm NOS tach came in. It looks like the OEM tachs began being manufactured differently at least by 1998 and current parts reflect that difference whether or not they are considered reproductions.

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Patrick,
The OEM plates I'm referring to are the 65-67 plates-no others. Your 6000 plate appears to be OE, the other appears to be a later service part. If you're happy with what you have, then use it. Never believe NOS if the box has been opened

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Patrick,
The OEM plates I'm referring to are the 65-67 plates-no others. Your 6000 plate appears to be OE, the other appears to be a later service part. If you're happy with what you have, then use it. Never believe NOS if the box has been opened

Ken: I'm also refering to 67 plates. My observations are from my original 67 cluster, a spare 67 6000 cluster, 2 NOS tachs, and Richard Mozzetta's pictures of original and "current OEM" or repro (whatever term you prefer) plates.

I don't understand some of your points. I suggested that someone had put a repro tach face on my NOS 6500 tach because it looked just like the tach face Richard had described as a repro and not like the face of the originals or the 6000 rpm tach. The only thing that made me doubt I had been swindled was the factory looking ink stamping on the back. I asked whether the new tach faces for sale had the ink stampings, and you responded that service tachs made in the 80's would have had the ink stamps. I took that to mean only the complete service unit tachs not the new tach faces for sale had the ink stamps. That would say that no one had altered it. Now you suggest that it has been altered and not really an NOS unit.

I would like you to tell me some things directly so I can understand them:

Is Richard's replacement tach face representative of what is for sale?
Is my NOS? 6500 tach the same as Richard's replacement face?
Do replacement tach faces for sale have the ink stamps on the back?
Are the tach faces for sale like my 6000 plate with raised ink numbers and grid or like my 6500 tach?
I'm not happy with my 6500 tach. You suggest there is something better. What exactly is it and who sells it?
Your statement in response #10, "Our midyear plates are made by the OEM supplier and are correct.", gave me the idea that the 1980's service replacement faces, presumably made by the OEM supplier, were still being made. Is that wrong?
Who is we?

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Patrick, I think Ken may be tied up with preparation to get to Carlisle and possibly the reason he hasn't replied.

You may want to send him a PM/Email, or give him a call. I'm sure he'd like to answer your questions.

In fact, I'd like to know the answers too. .....Rich

http://www.kandbcorvetteproducts.com/

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich et al,
Without holding the parts in hand it is not possible to judge them. FWIW OE parts were stamped at Flint w/ a part # after they became an assembly.
Ken

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Understood......Patrick's questions are one's I'd like to know the answers to also.

Anyone else?

Here are a few pics of a different '67 L71 cluster I restored a while ago. The numbers are visible behind the faces.

Note it's a "speedminder" speedometer.

PB060003.jpg PB060009.jpg

Hi RPM tach
PB060010.jpg PB060013.jpg

more pics next of the tach.....

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

More tach close-ups....

i am unsure if these were original gauges or restored/reproduction faces. Maybe they are GM replacements from the past. I am unsure.

PB060014.jpg PB060015.jpg


Cleaned tested and re-assembled....
P1160078.jpgP1160081.jpg

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Patrick, I think Ken may be tied up with preparation to get to Carlisle and possibly the reason he hasn't replied.

You may want to send him a PM/Email, or give him a call. I'm sure he'd like to answer your questions.

In fact, I'd like to know the answers too. .....Rich

http://www.kandbcorvetteproducts.com/

Rich: I am going to Carlisle tomorrow. I take it Ken Anderson is the K in K&B Corvette Products. I will take the tachs and look for him.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Understood......Patrick's questions are one's I'd like to know the answers to also.

Anyone else?

Here are a few pics of a different '67 L71 cluster I restored a while ago. The numbers are visible behind the faces.

Note it's a "speedminder" speedometer.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]54588[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]54589[/ATTACH]

Hi RPM tach
[ATTACH=CONFIG]54590[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]54591[/ATTACH]

more pics next of the tach.....

Rich: I did not meet up with Ken Anderson at Carlisle, but I called him later and I think I know most of the answers to my questions now. So I would like to bring those who read these posts up to date.


Ken said that when tach faces are restored, the restorer bead blasts the face, paints it with a semi-gloss paint and uses a decal rather than multiple silk screens to replace the numbers and colors. The NOS tachs I posted pictures of are certainly silk screened rather than decaled. You can feel the thickness of the paint on the numbers and grid. They are truely NOS pieces with dates and part numbers inked on the back of the plates. However, the 6500 tach has a much shinier black and the silk screening of the numbers was simply a poorer job.

Ken said that the tach faces are made from sheet metal prepainted with black on one side and light green on the other, and the gloss of the black varies somewhat from one sheet metal delivery to the next. Since I believe that my 6500 rpm tach was a NOS item but at the poor end of the quality control spectrum, I bought a new face from K&B Corvette Products to see if it was better than what I had. Below is a picture. Unfortunately, my camera really distorts the colors and makes them look faded. (Also excuse the dust in the pics - the face is not scratched.) The red and yellow/orange are very bright and good looking on K&B face. The colors are the same as the NOS parts which were also distorted by my previous pictures with the same camera. The black face is less shiney than on the my 6500 NOS tach but not identical to my 6000 NOS tach. That certainly agrees with Ken's remark about sheet metal color variability.

So, I like the tach face I bought from Ken, and I intend to replace my original tach face with this new one. I would not like to have my original tach face bead blasted and restored with a decal. I will just keep it with other original pieces that were too degraded to reuse.

Rich, I would say that your replacement face is also probably a silk screen piece rather than a decaled piece and that it falls into the spectrum of black gloss of the sheet metal material.


IMG_1168.jpgIMG_1169.jpg

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich: I did not meet up with Ken Anderson at Carlisle, but I called him later and I think I know most of the answers to my questions now. So I would like to bring those who read these posts up to date.


Ken said that when tach faces are restored, the restorer bead blasts the face, paints it with a semi-gloss paint and uses a decal rather than multiple silk screens to replace the numbers and colors. The NOS tachs I posted pictures of are certainly silk screened rather than decaled. You can feel the thickness of the paint on the numbers and grid. They are truely NOS pieces with dates and part numbers inked on the back of the plates. However, the 6500 tach has a much shinier black and the silk screening of the numbers was simply a poorer job.

Ken said that the tach faces are made from sheet metal prepainted with black on one side and light green on the other, and the gloss of the black varies somewhat from one sheet metal delivery to the next. Since I believe that my 6500 rpm tach was a NOS item but at the poor end of the quality control spectrum, I bought a new face from K&B Corvette Products to see if it was better than what I had. Below is a picture. Unfortunately, my camera really distorts the colors and makes them look faded. (Also excuse the dust in the pics - the face is not scratched.) The red and yellow/orange are very bright and good looking on K&B face. The colors are the same as the NOS parts which were also distorted by my previous pictures with the same camera. The black face is less shiney than on the my 6500 NOS tach but not identical to my 6000 NOS tach. That certainly agrees with Ken's remark about sheet metal color variability.

So, I like the tach face I bought from Ken, and I intend to replace my original tach face with this new one. I would not like to have my original tach face bead blasted and restored with a decal. I will just keep it with other original pieces that were too degraded to reuse.

Rich, I would say that your replacement face is also probably a silk screen piece rather than a decaled piece and that it falls into the spectrum of black gloss of the sheet metal material.


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Patrick, Thanks for the update. This is great info.

I was there at Carlisle too but never got a chance to find Ken either. I met him several years ago at the Winter Regional in FL.

Rich