67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

a few more pics


Before disassembly. That rust around the mount screws is tough to remove and refinish. One of the reasons I went with new faces. Note the bent speedo needle....I wonder how that happened.
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new faces installed
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Richard---- What did you paint the instrumnt cluster with?

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

That '67 didn't need black paint, but for the C2 clusters, I'd recommend a semi-flat. I did my '63 years ago with a semi-gloss, but it was a tad too shiny.

Before
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After
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[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich,
Your paint on the inside of the cans is incorrect. You need to have bare metal around the fuel & temp for proper grounding. This is common mistake. Call me if you need new cans & retainers that are plated, as well.
Ken

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich,
The originals are sun faded out.Delco prints call the color "fire orange red". There is no fire in you old face. The black faces should have some gloss. Our midyear plates are made by the OEM supplier and are correct.
Ken

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Hi Ken, yup I know. You can't see it in the earlier pics but the mount areas for the back of the gauges to connect ground are masked off bare metal. And the inner circle contact for the instrument lights has to be scraped off too or no night driving.

I do all of my gauges this way.

Here are a few pics after the paint's dry and tape removed.
Rich
p.s. do you make the '53-'57 gauge pods yet?

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[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich,
The originals are sun faded out.Delco prints call the color "fire orange red". There is no fire in you old face. The black faces should have some gloss. Our midyear plates are made by the OEM supplier and are correct.
Ken

I'm surprised the originals were glossy as I'd think they'd be too reflective. Yes that red on your repros is definitely fiery. Mine was pretty faded but wanted to keep it original so Bill painted it for me while he had it apart and recalibrated after a new maingear.

Thanks,
Rich

[Gene M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Guys,
Understand your mid year black cluster will look total different if you strip and refinish vs just a repaint. I prefer to strip to eliminate paint thickness build up. The chrome finish will give more gloss vs using a thin coat of a mat black binder so the adhesion is good to the chrome. Then I use a SATIN Valspar black. This is fairly durable finish. But does not fully cure till a week transpires. Some of the other brands are poor normal wear qualities, so do some testing prior to usage.

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich,
The originals are sun faded out.Delco prints call the color "fire orange red". There is no fire in you old face. The black faces should have some gloss. Our midyear plates are made by the OEM supplier and are correct.
Ken

Now that I think of it Ken......were you talking about the '67 tach face pictured on the left in the post above? That was the original unrestored sun-faded one out of the convertible. We never restored that face or the speedo face. It went in a box with the car along with other original pieces from it.

Guys,
Understand your mid year black cluster will look total different if you strip and refinish vs just a repaint. I prefer to strip to eliminate paint thickness build up. The chrome finish will give more gloss vs using a thin coat of a mat black binder so the adhesion is good to the chrome. Then I use a SATIN Valspar black. This is fairly durable finish. But does not fully cure till a week transpires. Some of the other brands are poor normal wear qualities, so do some testing prior to usage.

Good info......When I did that '63 cluster I removed all of the old paint down to the detail grain of the chrome and around the bezels. I entirely scuffed it with scotch-brite and a wire brush in the corners. IIRC I spent a very long time on the prep. I didn't use a primer, but the paint I used adhered very well. After a overnight cure, I actually masked the entire face(over the black), and then painted the silver bezels. Not a bit of black came off, so I know it adhered well. Totally opposite of the way they were originally done as I discovered here on the TDB then, but it worked. It was my first '63 (C2)cluster face repaint and I didn't know I was doing it wrong, but the result was good.

Rich

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Yes talking about the dial plates, most "restored" have a lot of trash in the paint, then covered up with a decal.

Now that I think of it Ken......were you talking about the '67 tach face pictured on the left in the post above? That was the original unrestored sun-faded one out of the convertible. We never restored that face or the speedo face. It went in a box with the car along with other original pieces from it.



Good info......When I did that '63 cluster I removed all of the old paint down to the detail grain of the chrome and around the bezels. I entirely scuffed it with scotch-brite and a wire brush in the corners. IIRC I spent a very long time on the prep. I didn't use a primer, but the paint I used adhered very well. After a overnight cure, I actually masked the entire face(over the black), and then painted the silver bezels. Not a bit of black came off, so I know it adhered well. Totally opposite of the way they were originally done as I discovered here on the TDB then, but it worked. It was my first '63 (C2)cluster face repaint and I didn't know I was doing it wrong, but the result was good.

Rich

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Wow! There is so much information here I am getting confused. Were the original Tach and Speedo numbers and colors manufactured using a decal or is this just the manufacturing technique of modern reproductions? If my original tach face is faded because a very thin decal is faded, how could it possibly be restored? This tends to convince me that I should use the NOS tach I have rather than having the original restored which seems to involve replacing the tach face with a modern reproduction.

Other questions I have about restoring my instrument cluster:
Is there a safe cleaning method for the other gage faces that do not have the color fading issue of the tach?
Is there a little puller or tool to remove gage neddles without damage?
Is Krylon industial 1613 semi-flat the right color for the cluster?
Should one try to mask the chrome when painting or use thinner to clean the paint off surfaces to be left bright?

[Richard M.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Wow! There is so much information here I am getting confused. Were the original Tach and Speedo numbers and colors manufactured using a decal or is this just the manufacturing technique of modern reproductions? If my original tach face is faded because a very thin decal is faded, how could it possibly be restored? This tends to convince me that I should use the NOS tach I have rather than having the original restored which seems to involve replacing the tach face with a modern reproduction.

Other questions I have about restoring my instrument cluster:
1- Is there a safe cleaning method for the other gage faces that do not have the color fading issue of the tach?
2- Is there a little puller or tool to remove gage neddles without damage?
3- Is Krylon industial 1613 semi-flat the right color for the cluster?
4- Should one try to mask the chrome when painting or use thinner to clean the paint off surfaces to be left bright?

Patrick, I believe the originals were all painted using some kind of mask or stencil process. They are not decals or clear plastic faces as far as I understand working on them many times and feeling the surfaces.

1- I only use water or alcohol to clean the faces. No harsh cleaning products like 409 or Fantastic, etc. never use mineral spirits.

2- To pull the needles, I use a tiny needle nose to hold the shaft behind the face, then a slight CCW turn/pull/twist action using my fingers to pull the needles. There's a needle stop built into the cups but i like the pliers as a precaution. Luckily I've had good results doing that. Bill H. taught me that.

3- Yes I think the consensus is that the Krylon Ind 1613 is a good paint for the cluster housing black.

4- Don't bother masking the chrome knob lettered areas. Just paint right over them and use q-tips and a tad of thinner to remove the black. Also can use x-acto pointy blade tip and flat single edge blades to scrape it off carefully. However I do mask the outer arch chrome as it's easy to do. For the gauge bezels top chrome.....either way. You can mask it but it'll take forever, then risk peeling the black on the sides. On that '63 I did, I just painted over them and used the x-acto blade to scrape it off then cleanup with the q-tips and light thinner, not soaking. I'd say the later black cluster gauge bezels are easier for that reason as the '63 has that silver on the sides making it a little more involved.

Rich

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich--Thanks for the detailed advice. I will post a picture of the NOS tach to see if you think it is like an original or a reproduction.

[Robert D.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

i think you should restore the original gauges because they are the original gauges that came with the car. i have had several clocks and gauges restored from my cars and i believe they were screen printed as the originals were. (i believe) there are several restorers out there that do excelent work. i have had these judged and all have passed with no deductions. i just recieved back a clock and a radio from my 67 L71 from D&M restorations and the quality and originality were unbelievable. im sure there will be no problem with judging.

[Ken A.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Unlikely they were screened as OE were screened and then stamped out. Very difficult to screen a non flat surface.
In addition, did you know there were 4 screens used for each 65-67 tach dial plate? I'm sure the radio is very nice.

[Patrick B.]

Re: 67 Dash Cluster - restore or replace?

Rich--Thanks for the detailed advice. I will post a picture of the NOS tach to see if you think it is like an original or a reproduction.

I had two NOS 67 tachs, a 6000 red line and a 6500 red line. They are really different. The 6000 red line tach looks like it is silk screen painted with a slightly orange peeled low gloss black background. The 6500 red line tach looks like the repro with a decal for numbering and colors and a much glossier black background. The 6000 rpm tach looks like a 67 original and the 6500 tach looks like a repro. I am really bummed out because the one my L-71 needs is not the good one.

I bought these things at least 15-20 years ago at Carlisle. My first thought was that the guy who sold them to me replaced the tach face of the 6500 unit with a repro because he knew the originals were different. However, there is a part number and date code ink stamped on the back on the tach face that looks like a GM stamp. Do the repros have that stamp or did GM change the manufacturing method of the service units in 1988 0r 1998 (as suggested by the ink stamp.)

I am going to try to have my original tach face recolored since my NOS unit looks like a repro.


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