1971 Dash

[Tony R.]

Greetings,

I bought and installed a new Al Knoch interior, but there are difficulties getting things to fit together right, namely, the instrument cluster bezel will not seat into the top dash pad AND there is a greater gap on the left corner than the right corner.

What is the correct process to put this all together correctly??

It seems the left lowe dash pad is sitting a little higher (is raised) compared to the right bottom dash pad.

Thank you.
Tony

[Russ S.]

Re: 1971 Dash

You must have put repo dash pads in?? Repos in my experience don't fit.

[Alan S.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Hi Tony,
I believe even original center gauge bezels typically do not fit snug and flush across their entire top where it seats under the upper dash pad... even on cars that have their original parts and those that haven't ever been apart.
I believe the bezels have a slight 'warp' in them that contributes to this difficult fit.
I also believe this is one of the reasons so many bezels have their top broken off. The temptation is strong to push hard on the upper left corner to improve the fit and that 'pop's the bezel at it's designed 'breaking point'.
I found that putting a couple of small washers under the left side stud on the bottom of the bezel where it seats on the shifter console helped the fit on my 71. It's the original bezel, dash pads, and console. It helped hold the bezel at a slight angle which helped the fit at the top.
Whatever you do don't push on that corner…. the bezel makes the cutest little 'pop' when it breaks….. and gives absolutely NO warning.
Be careful!!! Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

The first is a 69 Bowtie car and the second is a restored 71 with original interior parts.

[Tony R.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Thank you for your reply, Alan. There is a 3/8 - 1/2 inch gap at the top. Something seems to be wrong beyond what was mentioned above. Again, it seems the right side of the lower left dash pad is raised causing the upper dash pad to exhibit a wave instead of a straight line.

Tony

[Tony R.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Hello, Russ.
The center bezel had this issue with original pads (not sitting evenly across the top), but not with such a large gap!

[Bill L.]

Re: 1971 Dash

HI Tony,

I found when reassembling my 70 that the center console had to be as far forward as possible before the gauge bezel would properly fit and the shifter would not hit the front edge of the shifter plate. Also found that that leaving all the dash pieces loose helps to get everything aligned.. Set the top pad to the center bezel and console first. Then install the brake console and tighten the center console (4 screws) once this alignment is satisfactory. I still did not put any screws in the gauge bezel until the driver's side pad was in place. Last piece that went in was the pass side lower dash. Once the other pieces were assembled pass side pretty much falls in to place. Hopefully you still have your original dash wiring harness. There is no room for error between the wiring harness and dash pieces.

I did experiment with repro parts and ultimately reused my originals except for the top pad because it cracked while taking it out. Ultimately found an excellent original used pad as a replacement. VERY careful use of a heat gun on the repro dash pad hard plastic will allow a little manipulation for a better fit. Experiment because a heat gun will destroy a perfectly good dash piece in no time.

The dash reassembly was completed with the steering column removed. If you do remove the steering column leave all the dash pieces loose as it is a very tight fit between the dash pad and column in order to get the Dash filler piece properly attached under the column.

Ultimately the best bet is to try and find original parts. Repro interior parts can be tough to fit even from a quality company like Al Knock.

Bill

[Tony R.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Thank you Alan, Russ, and Bill!

...and now...

Eurika!!

I looked at archive postings under cluster installation which directed me to the WILCOX link for cluster removal and reinstall procedures. From the posts, some one suggested they would like to see how the assembly line workers installed the dash, cluster, and forward shift console in a timely manner without all the hassle we are experiencing!

Interesting discovery... Between replies to my post, the archive threads, and Wilcox, I started working on the problem as I used to when I was an electronics technician...With my knowledge and experience of how factories work, I imagined my self on the assembly line and step-by-step considered how they would have set-up the installation procedure. It seems clear the cluster is installed after the lower dash panels and upper dash panel (all screws still loose). The cluster to lower dash pad holes are drilled and fastened, then the forward shift console is fitted after wards. When everything is right, all remaining screws are tightened.

Here is how I discovered a fundamental problem through observation, troubleshooting, and elementary deduction...:
I disassembled the forward shift console and dropped the cluster to investigate what is impeeding the proper seating of these clusters!

I removed the A/C vent panel in the cluster and held the cluster roughly in place to attempt proper seating.
Then, I looked behind with LED lighting and mirrors to see if the copper oil tube was in the way...No, it is not.
Then, I looked to see if the wiring was in the way...No, it is not.(I even managed to slide my fingers behind and found that with the edge of the cluster aligned with the lower dash pads, there is plenty of room behind the wires and the duct work.)
OKAY, now we are getting somewhere!
Still, the top of the cluster is just not seating AND there is nothing in the way?!! IMPOSSIBLE!!
So, I measured the distance at the top opening between the lower left and lower right dash pad...7 inches.
Then, I measured the top of the cluster...7 1/4 inches AND there we have it! The top is not seating because there is NO room!!

My new task is to see how to make enough room to fit the cluster without breaking anything.

Ideas??

Thank you,

[Rich C.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Pictures would be great! Might get more ideas!


1973 LS-4 454 coupe owned 24 years
1996 LT-4 Collector Edition coupe owned 14 months
Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA-currently on tap!

[Tony R.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Rich, I need to get better at taking pictures in general and during my work...need to hire someone to follow me as I create my works of wonder.

Tony

[Tony R.]

Re: 1971 Dash

OK... This problem is solved!
It seems that most attempts are made to install the cluster and forward shift console as one assembly. While this seems to make perfect sense, the most proper alignment and hassle free experience is attained using the following procedure: Align and fasten the cluster to the dash first, then install the forward shift and emergency brake consoles second.

The solution....

1. Use Dremel Tungsten/Carbide cutting tool to cut slot in upper dash pad mounting stand-offs. Slot to the left on the left three mounting plates and slot to the right on the right three mounting plates on the under side front edge where the 'U' clips(6) mount. (These slots will provide 'wiggle room' when setting up the parts.) Remember, the top of cluster is 7 1/4 inches wide and the lower dash opening at the top is 7 inches wide. The slots will allow the pads to provide a wider opening AND make it much easier to find the clip with the dash pad screws.
2. Install the lower left dash pad, then the upper dash pad and loosely fasten the screws between the pads and on the left door pillar.
3. Set-up the cluster by installing the forward shift mounting screws to the cluster about two threads and the nuts and washers about two threads. (This will allowe the forward shift console to slide in when the time comes. Install the cluster (without the foward shift console) to the upper dash pad using the center top screw to the upper dash pad (A/C models: Install with the vent plate assembly to keep the pot metal cluster from breaking).
4. Next, have a helper support the cluster while you align, drill, and screw the upper left side hole to the top right corner of the lower left dash pad. (leave the bottom screw holes alone for now.) PUSH UP on the cluster to overcome an off set created by the lower dash pads pushing up on the upper dash pad. The alignment will rarely be 100% perfect as I have noticed the lower left das pad pushes up the upper dash pad above the left cluster corner. This is alright as the right dash pad will do likewise. If your helper pushes the cluster up enough, you may achieve 100% fit!
5. Install the lower right dash pad to the upper dash pad and loosely fasten with screws to the upper dash pad and right side door pillar. (Carefully seat the cluster between the two lower dash pads. There will be improved ability to move the dash pads due to the slots in the upper dash pad mounting plates and all screws loosely fastened.)
6. Now have your helper hold the cluster and lower dash pad in alignment as you drill and screw the upper right mounting screw to the upper left corner of the lower right dash pad. The right and left upper corners will now be aligned as perfect as possible because the cluster now fits the opening at the top and you secured its alignment with screws on three sides.
7. When satisfied the bezel is squarely seated, tighten all 10 dash pad screws.
8. Now carefully install the forward shift console at an angle to catche the cluster mounting screws set-up in step 3. You will notice a rather large gap under the left corner between the shift console and cluster bottom. No worries. Make sure the tail of the forward shift console and emergency brake console fit properly and secure with 4 screws to the emergency brake mounting brackets.
9. With the forward shift and emergency brake consoles secured at the back, tighten the cluster bolts under the front of the foward shift console (This part is a very tight space with little room to turn the nut. Take your time.) The forward shift console stitching will line up with the lower dash pad stitching and the gap disappears.
10. Secure the side forward shift bracket to tunnel bracket stays.
Install the climate control plate and controls, fiber optics, and shifter plate.
11. Remember the lower cluster to dash pad screw holes? Now would be a good time to drill and secure those screws and the job is complete.

Please let me know how this works for anyone reading this and attempting a 1971 dash install.

[Alan S.]

Re: 1971 Dash

Hi Tony,
Well Done!
I've always installed the right-side dash pad after installing the center gauge cluster and the shifter and brake consoles.
It never occurred to me that the right side pad could be forcing the cluster bezel out of alignment.
The next time I have to take it apart I'll try your method!!!
Regards,
Alan

Often when the U and J clips are used there is already 'wiggle room' in the part the clip seats on (I'm thinking of the holes in the fiberglass for 70-72 front grills' j-clips), but there's certainly very little on the dash top stand-offs!

[James W.]

Re: 1971 Dash

I owned a 71 LS-5 for 20+ years. The bezel never fit properly at the top edge. So with all this slotting and fabricating, where does that leave originality? Thus is they way they were built. To me this is the same as evening the gaps in the doors. It may look nice and appeal to the perfectionist in us, but it is over restoration.

thats how I will judge it, also

Jim

[Bill L.]

Re: 1971 Dash

I owned a 71 LS-5 for 20+ years. The bezel never fit properly at the top edge. So with all this slotting and fabricating, where does that leave originality? Thus is they way they were built. To me this is the same as evening the gaps in the doors. It may look nice and appeal to the perfectionist in us, but it is over restoration.

thats how I will judge it, also

Jim

Hmmm- My 70 has all original GM parts except for carpet and seat covers. The gauge bezel lines up just fine. I removed the bezel and dash pieces to repair some broken gauges and then removed it again when the radio failed. No modifications whatsoever.

How would that judge?



Bill

[Clifford B.]

Re: 1971 Dash

While you were taking the dash out, did you find a build sheet stuck between the Tach and Speedometer? When I removed my dash on my 72 I found the build sheet in almost perfect condition.

[Bill L.]

Re: 1971 Dash

While you were taking the dash out, did you find a build sheet stuck between the Tach and Speedometer? When I removed my dash on my 72 I found the build sheet in almost perfect condition.

No build sheet behind dash. Tank sticker was there but in pieces and illegible.

Bill