Since everyone both within and without the Corvette community has destroyed any real meaning for the phrase "matching numbers," may I respectfully suggest that anyone with a true, unmolested example containing the numbered components with which the car was born be encouraged to use the phrase "original numbers." Given the commonly accepted meaning for the word "original" this phrase should serve to strictly limit the cars that could legitimately be so described thereby creating some usefulness and providing an unambiguous term to describe the few vehicles that remain as they were manufactured.
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Edward,
You raise a good point. After reading your posting I thought for sure that the NCRS "Lingo Defined" section under NCRS Services on the main page would have a definition for "matching numbers". It doesn't - perhaps it should and as you suggest, the definition should include those components (transmission, frame, engine block, etc) that would have to "match" to constitute a matching numbers car. I suspect the criteria would be different depending on the year of manufacture.Ed -
Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
True, but it's also used by people who are ignorant or who simply don't care. This is the same with other phrases, like "restoration" or "frame up restoration", which have been used for decades by people who did not care to be entirely accurate for whatever reason.Comment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Two ways of looking at it. This is NCRS, National Corvette Restorers Society. If it was National Corvette Preservation Society then restoring a car by putting back on it the correct dated or numbered part would be a no-no.
That's not to say that Preservation isn't part of the charter but I'm afraid if it was the case membership would be a much smaller if it was limited to those cars.
When new these cars were used for transportation. When you drive a car the parts wear out and need to be replace.
MikeComment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
In my opinion, "original numbers" means nothing and could be synonymous with "matching numbers". Matching numbers, to me, means the component numbers are correct for the vehicle; but NOT necessarily original. That being said, I would describe my vehicle's engine as having it's original engine with the original factory stamped numbers applied by the factory. Realizing too that this is the opinion of everyone who has looked at it.Comment
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Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
IMO there is still great confusion with the word "real" when referring to Cobras. Don't want to hijack a thread so we can start a new one and discuss if anyone wants to know more.
Comment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Right, way too far off topic, I will PM you.Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New MexicoComment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Edward,
I think you are appealing to the Corvette community and not just the NCRS membership. Which you stated. I would if I was to sell one of my car list it as "original engine the car was born with NOT a restamp". I realize this is a lot of words but it leaves no doubt in one's mind as to what the engine is in the car. Any phrase will have different connotation to the meaning it has to different people. The worst phrase being "matching numbers" which has become meaningless. I personally do not consider a restamped engine to qualify as matching numbers. If I were polite it would be called a restoration engine....... but I'm not so I refer to it as a fake.Comment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Whatever terminology or definition you give to anything the bottom line will be the same. The same people who misuse and have destroyed "matching numbers" will abuse the new definition and terms as well.
"Matching numbers" has been around a long time. The reason it is so meaningless now is because its used like this "all numbers match" or "original matching numbers" car. Almost none of these sellers know that numbers are on things like the alternator, alternator pulley, starter, fan, glass, expansion tank, water pump, carb, master cylinder, rims, gas tank sending unit flange (at least on 69s, thats all I know anything about) smog pump, on and on. And if they do know, they are simply just lying. The people that have many matching items will list them all in there ad because it is so hard to actually find cars that have most of the correct items. I am slowly restoring my 69 427/390 right now and the correct alt, carb, smog unit and starter are more money than a typical engine rebuild. But since my car has the original drive train I want to do it as correct as I can. I have the time and when I get some disposable income I spend it on parts.
Even if I get everything date coded correct its still not "original numbers". It has some matching numbers today but I would need to find a few more items for a more matching numbers car. I don't think it will ever be all matching numbers but it will be more matching numbers than most. Every time I turn around I find another item that had a number on it.
i am not sure what will be more frustrating about making official definitions. Trying to agree on what a good definition is? Or how quickly it will be before sellers start to blatantly misuse the new terms all the while displaying there misspelled and misstamped "original" window stickers and tank sheets..........
All you can do is help educate the newer buyers of classic Corvettes. The sellers are a lost cause.
Good luckComment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
unless you bought car new or have a signed statement from each owner there is no way to prove everything is original to car, even then it doesn't prove anything, a signed statement would only prove that you or someone was willing to put in writing what you say to be true and even then a person could lie. the hobby has gotten too caught up in words like original, matching etc. I liked the days when I bought my first corvette and people bought and enjoyed their cars and were not anal about matching numbers, original numbers, clamps, hoses etc. and on that no car is 100% original today regardless of what someone says. Lastly, my cars have numbers that match but I did not buy new so I will never say anything is original to car even if I believe it is....my 2 cents.Michael
70 Mulsanne Blue LT-1
03 Electron Blue Z06Comment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Edward this is the style of restoring that my 68 is going through! No trailer Queens are allowed in my garage. Driving these cars is what is the Best. I listen to the Old Timers that Hoard all the original parts and dont share with the Club makes me sick. I've been doing the Sportman Awards. Not really interested in having my car judged. I do like playing the judge role, to look and see what type of Corvettes are in the Club. I see a lot of China parts on alot of these redone cars at judging meets. I have fun checking swap meets,flea-bay and making deals on the correct original numbered parts for my Corvette. Its a Hobby! Enjoy!Comment
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Re: Use of "Original Numbers" Terminology
Agree and it is good to see you posting here again!
tcComment
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