Engine Block Testing

[Steve M.]

I purchased a SWC a year and a half ago. The bare, original block came with the car as part of the purchase. I have no idea why the engine was pulled from service, and the engine currently in the car was built with the heads, intake and distributor that came with the car - as near as I can tell anyway.

A clue may lie in the fact that the engine is missing the rear main bearing cap - the other bearings are there. I am approximately the 10th owner of the car, and this block has followed it around the whole time, remarkably enough.

I had the block inspected by a friend of a friend who said the block appears to be in good shape. It's never been bored, and there is barely a hint of wear in the cylinders where the top piston ring stops.

Id like to finally reunite the block with its original components and the car. I took the block to a reputable machine shop and it's in the cue to be inspected. I asked for a pressure test, and if it passes that, they are going to find a bearing cap and align bore the block. Beyond that, they are going to check deck height, cylinder roundness, head surface.

Is there anything else I should have them check before I proceed with the rebuild? I don't want to find something out the hard way that I could've caught at this stage.

[Martin M.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

On the assumption that the pad on the passenger side front has the correct stampings for the car (Serial #, date, etc) DO NOT LET THEM DECK THE BLOCK!!!! This will remove the data and create serious heartache.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

On the assumption that the pad on the passenger side front has the correct stampings for the car (Serial #, date, etc) DO NOT LET THEM DECK THE BLOCK!!!! This will remove the data and create serious heartache.

Steve,

I hope you made this clear to the machine shop that has your block..

[Richard M.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Steve,

I hope you made this clear to the machine shop that has your block..

Yes, communicate. Giving a rare block to a machine shop is like giving your car keys to a valet parking lot attendant. You never know what'll happen until you get the car back.

I think the next time I send a rare assembly stamped block out for rebuild, I'll brush black epoxy over the pad. I doubt the epoxy would hurt the details. Just as the epoxy starts to kick off, maybe write or hand stamp in something like......

DO NOT MACHINE THIS AREA
RARE DATA STAMP BELOW

Then when I get it back I'll use a heat gun and pop it off and solvent-rag the pad.

[Jerry W.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

the biggest potential problem is crud in the coolant passages...clean it.soak it..clean it soak it...speaking of experience

[Richard M.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Very true.....this is what a "so-called" machine shop rebuilt for a buddy's engine. Shop owner blamed it on today's weaker cleaning chemicals!

P9100021.jpgP9100023.jpgP9100025.jpgP9100027.jpg
P9100029.jpgP9100031.jpgP9100034.jpgP9110040.jpg
P9110041.jpg

[Jerry W.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Deja Vu...exactly..our 1st engine rebuilder did a terrific rebuild ( except internal cleaning )...after resto was complete ( 2 yrs later ) the engine had to come back out because of overheating and be rebuilt again after extensive cleaning...double the engine rebuild cost...Ouch !

[Donald A.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Steve

speaking from experience I would also have all oil passages checked to ensure they are clear and that nothing has been done to the block from its original configuration in this respect.

Having been burned i would would not take someone's word on it. Ask to be part of a thorough inspection process and verification AND take pictures.

Wish you a better experience than I have had.

Don

[Page C.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Will also echo the previous instructions on not letting them deck the block. Would also not let them clean it by the SHOT BLASTING METHOD where they put the block in a cabinet on a rotating platform and blast in with steel shot. If there are any broach marks left on the block before it goes in the cabinet, there will NOT be any when it comes out. Also no sand paper, scotch bright pads and other methods some want to use on the blocks cylinder head surfaces.

[Steve G.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Ask around your area for recommendations for a reputable, quality, rebuilder. They KNOW exactly what needs to be checked and know to follow instructions. Real professionals examine and chase all the threaded holes, check for alignment of the main bearing saddles, check the deck for square.... With a missing main cap that block at the very least will require line boring.

While I agree totally that you don't want to deck that block, you do want to know how it checks out/measures up. It's not just warpage of the deck, it is corrosion around the coolant passage that may create problems. Depending on the results of that check you decide whether you want an originally stamped engine that can't keep a head gasket on, an original stamped block that follows the car around in a crate or a decked and restamped block that runs and drives with reliability.

Having said that, It's highly unlikely that block, or for that matter, most blocks NEED decking. It's usually done to improve upon the original machining of the block.

Steve

[Duke W.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Having said that, It's highly unlikely that block, or for that matter, most blocks NEED decking. It's usually done to improve upon the original machining of the block.

Steve

A lot of machine shops routinely deck blocks without checking deck height, level - NOTHING. They just take a 5-10 thou cut... same with heads... same with align boring the main bearing saddles.

My philosophy on ANY engine restoration is to measure everything and not remove any metal unless absolutely necessary.

That's why owner's need to spend time with any shop owner/foreman and determine if it is just a production shop that builds rebuilt crate engines or really knows how to do "custom" work to the customer's specifications.

Guys that don't thoroughly plan their engine restorations and do proper due diligence with machine shops and mechanics that will be doing work often end up with disasters.

The archives are full of threads about botched engine restorations including wiping out the provinence date stamped on the right block deck. Other sins include using aftermarket hot rod parts (like "roller tip" rocker arms, hot rod cams and gorilla valve springs, high volume/high pressure oil pumps, low compression pistons...) when OE parts (including the parts originally on the engine like oil pumps pushrods and rocker arms) are perfectly adequate, if not actually better!

Duke

[Michael F.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

I'm with Duke, my builder didn't deck etc. without explicit instructions from me, if something in question he ask me first then did. He builds race engines and now only does so for those he knows as he gets closer to retirement.

[Steve G.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

A lot of machine shops routinely deck blocks without checking deck height, level - NOTHING. They just take a 5-10 thou cut... same with heads... same with align boring the main bearing saddles.

My philosophy on ANY engine restoration is to measure everything and not remove any metal unless absolutely necessary.

That's why owner's need to spend time with any shop owner/foreman and determine if it is just a production shop that builds rebuilt crate engines or really knows how to do "custom" work to the customer's specifications.

Guys that don't thoroughly plan their engine restorations and do proper due diligence with machine shops and mechanics that will be doing work often end up with disasters.

The archives are full of threads about botched engine restorations including wiping out the provinence date stamped on the right block deck. Other sins include using aftermarket hot rod parts (like "roller tip" rocker arms, hot rod cams and gorilla valve springs, high volume/high pressure oil pumps, low compression pistons...) when OE parts (including the parts originally on the engine like oil pumps pushrods and rocker arms) are perfectly adequate, if not actually better!

Duke

Yes, I think that is exactly what I was saying.

There is seldom a NEED to remove deck material. Shops do it (unless instructed otherwise) because it's faster (spell that cheaper) and easier than checking it for one thing and secondly, if the tolerance allows for .004 across the deck, .000 is better than within tolerance but greater than 0. If the cost is less and the results better, they see no reason not to do it. We have a different reason not to do it. But it still must be checked.

Know your machine shop and go in with your shopping list. Know enough to ask the right questions and tell them what it is you want. I've held a journeyman's ticket for about 40 yrs, so my conversation with my machine shop may be different than someone else's, but you should know enough to ask the right questions. If you don't, take someone with you that does.

I would disagree to some extent on your list of "sins". No machine shop is going to throw roller tip rockers or a roller lifter cam unless instructed to do so by the owner. And while you may see these items as "hot rod" stuff, an owner (and an engine machine shop/engine builder) may see them as more about improving the live expectancy and efficiency of the engine by reducing friction. The purist in us may want to see all the OE parts, but then the oe built those cyl heads without removable guides. So is a roller tip rocker that reduces guide wear and hopefully avoids drilling out the head and installing a removable guide not an improvement in the "preservation" side of things? Even to most purists, rocker arms are throwaways, heads with the correct castings and dates are not. Low tension piston rings on coated skirt pistons save valuable cyl meat over the years in addition to reducing the friction loss. There are situations where deviating from original in the area of a consumable may be preferred in order to preserve the "non consumable". I'm more inclined to see a little lattitude on the internals for those reasons.

Steve

[Steven B.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

On cleaning the block, I think it's a good idea to chase the threaded holes with a bottoming tap to loosen dirt, rust, etc. before tanking. I don't know what solutions are being allowed for cleaning now or why internal passages are not getting cleaned. Richards pictures looked pretty ugly. On machining, the only reason I could see for decking would be if the block has a corner way out, and the block is intended to be set up for racing. I would be nervous about taking it to someone who might deck a block that has its original stamps. It might also be advisable if the mainline needs machining, and it will with a new cap, to find someone who will take a minimum cut off the caps and hone instead off boring. This will prevent the mainline from being moved closer to the cam than is absolutely necessary. Others may have different thoughts on this.
Steve

[Steve M.]

Re: Engine Block Testing

Just the kind of info I was looking for, everyone. I appreciate the input.