65 327 waffle marks ?

[Ralph A.]

Hi getting ready to get my car judge in Lakeland does anyone have a pic. of the waffle marks on the radiator support on a 327 thanks Ralph

[Jim S.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

I'm quoting a reply on the CC from John Hinkley. If it's not mentioned in the 67 JG, it shouldn't be in the other years JG, right?

Originally Posted by John BX NY I cant see more than a note on the judging sheet for that one. The clamp marks were not a feature of the design of support but rather part of the process used to assemble it. It may or may not have been there depending on wear, air pressure etc.

" That's why we opted not to mention it in the new '67 JG - it's not a design feature that's typical of factory production - it's an occasional by-product of a variable manufacturing process that can't be isolated to a particular group of cars that someone happened to notice and asked about. I wouldn't take a deduction either - our job as judges is to assist the owner in achieving an award the car deserves, not to look for "secret" ways to ambush him. "... John Hinkley.

[Ralph A.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

well if that is the case then someone should tell the judges not to take off points for not having the clap marks, witch I lost points last year at old town .

[Mike E.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

Coffman has tried to mimic the tool marks on their repop core support. On their website it shows what they look like. I'm not sure how accurate they are.

Lets hope in the new '65 JG they take the same approach as they did in the '67 JG.

http://www.coffmancorvette.com/radsupt.html

Mike

[Gene M.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

I think the marks you guys are referring to in the trade they were referred to as "cat paw marks". They were a simple means of indexing the part as it was put through the different stamping, shearing and punching operations. This is not a designed feature of the part. Only a means of sheet metal fabrication.

[Page C.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

See page 179, second paragraph, second sentence of the 1967 Judging Guide. "Original supports have cross-hatched circular tooling marks along the forward side of the support's top brace."

[Ralph A.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

Is that the same for a 65 small block thanks

[Brian M.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

Please advise point deduct and comments. Thanks I saw the answer in the other thread

[John H.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

See page 179, second paragraph, second sentence of the 1967 Judging Guide. "Original supports have cross-hatched circular tooling marks along the forward side of the support's top brace."

Oops! I guess we DID put it in the JG after all. Sorry...

[Ralph A.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

So if its not in the 65 or 66 JG should it be judge, or should it be judge only on 67 cars thanks Ralph

[Gary S.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

I think the more important issue for judging is in determining if the radiator support is an original or a repro. I brought this up in the 2010 thread here with pictures attached:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...600#post493600

Please read post #12 and post #14 about the lines in the original supports that are not in reproductions.

Even though I think at least one clamp mark should be able to be seen, I think more weight should be given to a real support with no, few or light clamp marks than a repro with clamp marks. Those lines you see on the top and bottom cross pieces are tool marks from the draw die and not in reproduction supports that I have seen. These lines are in all C2's I have seen.

I would argue with any judge who wants to take points for lack of clamp marks if I knew I had a real support.

All pictures below are 67. #1=top 427 #2=top 427 #3=bottom

My 2 cents.


RadiatorSupportBolts.jpgRadiatorSupportTopBoltsLines67.jpgFrontCloseBottomRH2.jpg

[Page C.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

In my opinion, yes. It's has been judged for years in all the mid-year classes. The knowledge of the judges is sometimes ahead of the guides. If every detail was included the guides they would be 12 inches thick. The guides are always in a state of being updated and the 1965 Judging Guide is be revised as we speak.

[Ralph A.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

I was told by Dave Walters who is working on my car that a 65 radiator support small block, is very different then a 67 small block so does anyone have a picture of a 65 small block radiator support thanks Ralph

[R N.]

Re: 65 327 waffle marks ?

I think the more important issue for judging is in determining if the radiator support is an original or a repro. I brought this up in the 2010 thread here with pictures attached:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...600#post493600

Please read post #12 and post #14 about the lines in the original supports that are not in reproductions.

Even though I think at least one clamp mark should be able to be seen, I think more weight should be given to a real support with no, few or light clamp marks than a repro with clamp marks. Those lines you see on the top and bottom cross pieces are tool marks from the draw die and not in reproduction supports that I have seen. These lines are in all C2's I have seen.

I would argue with any judge who wants to take points for lack of clamp marks if I knew I had a real support.

All pictures below are 67. #1=top 427 #2=top 427 #3=bottom

My 2 cents.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]57374[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]57375[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]57376[/ATTACH]

I would argue with any judge who wants to take points for lack of clamp marks if I knew I had a real support.

Gary, I would agree as "these" clamps that were used to hold the support would wear over time and would be needed to be replaced from time to time. I would think they would of also of had some sort of adjustment for makING the clamp tighter or looser thus causing the hash marking to be variable.....