65 Big blocks

[Enzo C.]

Does anybody know how many 65 (396) big blocks were built in the 2 separate plants ???
I know the total was 2,157 but how many were AO smith.... and how many were St Louis built ???

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Does anybody know how many 65 (396) big blocks were built in the 2 separate plants ???
I know the total was 2,157 but how many were AO smith.... and how many were St Louis built ???

On dangerous ground here, but let's do a little math. From start of L78 production to the EOP, there were roughly 10,700 Corvettes produced. So, 2157 L78s would represent 20% from the start of BB production. As to your question on split of S-body versus A-body (and convertible vs. coupe for that matter), we'd have to solicit trim tag info -- shouldn't be that hard to do with help from viewers to this tech board.

ie. the last convertible (and last L78) is S-7755 with an L30 date. So (to all '65 BB's) let us know your body type, trim tag body # and VIN derivative.

[Bill W.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Enzo & Wayne . The plant information is something I started collecting a couple years ago . I started collecting 396 info in 1980 and have about 483 cars ( I would like to think they are all real but who knows) . Of the 483 I have 55 STL. & 19 AOS. Mine is #17346 & is a STL car (and has never lived more than 50 miles from the plant) . Its stamped S5628. J 11 style 65 467 900MM trim Std.DSC_1557.jpg and was built May 12 ,1965 . Enzo do I have yours on my list ?

[Bill W.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Enzo & Wayne I also have 195 conv. & 149 coupe. the rest I dont know . please dont ask for colors its to much counting tonight .Any one who has a 396 and wants included send me an Email pondpeoplel78@gmail.com

[Enzo C.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Hi Bill we will be in touch soon... Thanks to all responses

[Loren L.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

St Louis & Ionia, we have a problem. You have apparently lost the ability to count. In 1989 & 90, Noland sent me printouts of late 1965 coupes, St Louis & AO Smith (I can't remember what we were chasing). The St Louis starts with 20116 and ends with 23182; the corresponding
body #s start with S3553 and march through to S-4027. The AO Smith is 8 cars, beginning with 20087 and the 7th car is 22400; the AO Smith
Body #s begin with A-3561 and the 7th car is A-4078.
The problem occurs with # 23451 - it is A-7606. An embossing error? Please reference Wayne's comment above, with a St Louis body #
beginning with a "7". I will also offer my 23561 convertible, an AO Smith built July 9, 1965 (L09) and body #7282.
I quote from a 9/25/90 letter from the plant Manager, Joe Davis, of GenCorp Auto, Reinforced Plastics Division (formerly AO Smith), who after quoting GM's first production totals of 8186 coupes and 15376 convertibles, states:

"Ionia produced 62% of the total or 5075 coupes and 9533 convertibles."

There's obviously some NEW MATH involved here. I only have the 3rd edition of the JG. Do later editions touch on body #s of 7000 or more for either plant? If Ionia's math is correct, there were 2251 convertibles built by them alone between July 9 and August 4?!? Coupes, using 23451 & Wayne's St Louis car total more than 15,000.
Of course, we could always blame Hinckley.

[Pancho T.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Enzo & Wayne I also have 195 conv. & 149 coupe. the rest I dont know . please dont ask for colors its to much counting tonight .Any one who has a 396 and wants included send me an Email pondpeoplel78@gmail.com

Bill I emailed you some info for your list. Thanks

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

........ In 1989 & 90, Noland sent me printouts of late 1965 coupes, St Louis & AO Smith (I can't remember what we were chasing). The St Louis starts with 20116 and ends with 23182; the corresponding body #s start with S3553 and march through to S-4027. The AO Smith is 8 cars, beginning with 20087 and the 7th car is 22400; the AO Smith body #s begin with A-3561 and the 7th car is A-4078.
The problem occurs with # 23451 - it is A-7606. An embossing error? Please reference Wayne's comment above, with a St Louis body #
beginning with a "7". I will also offer my 23561 convertible, an AO Smith built July 9, 1965 (L09) and body #7282.
I quote from a 9/25/90 letter from the plant Manager, Joe Davis, of GenCorp Auto, Reinforced Plastics Division (formerly AO Smith), who after quoting GM's first production totals of 8186 coupes and 15376 convertibles, states:

"Ionia produced 62% of the total or 5075 coupes and 9533 convertibles."

There's obviously some NEW MATH involved here. I only have the 3rd edition of the JG. Do later editions touch on body #s of 7000 or more for either plant? If Ionia's math is correct, there were 2251 convertibles built by them alone between July 9 and August 4?!? Coupes, using 23451 & Wayne's St Louis car total more than 15,000.
Of course, we could always blame Hinckley.

Interesting numbers, Loren. Here's something I noted from a car at an NCRS meet (Cypress ?, a long time ago, then Park City Nationals -- Ward Gappa). '65 S-body coupe # 23551, L76, air, Maroon on black/white, L30, S4082, crayon Job 216. "LAST Job" written in crayon, on the tub fiberglass, under the carpet jute in the rear compartment. I always thought that my crayon job 204 on vin 23564 related to the last convertible body, (trim tag L30, S7755) but now am thinking that this crayon number might apply to St. Louis body sequence irrespective of body style. If that's the case, the last '65 St Louis body ended up on a car 13 VINs from EOP. Maybe John H. could shed some light.

Must have been some fancy dancing to get those last cars out the door .

[Enzo C.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Hello Wayne, just to clarify all I wanted to know was how many big blocks were built at AO Smith and how many in St Louis in 65... Or was it a 60/40 ratio or something like that... I appreciate all the numbers and knowledge though...

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Hello Wayne, just to clarify all I wanted to know was how many big blocks were built at AO Smith and how many in St Louis in 65... Or was it a 60/40 ratio or something like that... I appreciate all the numbers and knowledge though...

Enzo --- sorry we drifted off the intent of your original post (tends to happen ). got thinking about my post near the top and concluded that there is no feasible way, AFAIK, to determine the 396 split between S and A body plants. Short of finding the MSO's of the last 12,000 cars (would provide VIN, body style, and whether 327 or 396 [via the taxable horsepower figure -- this would weed out the recently born L78s and provide the convertible/coupe ratio for the last 12000 from both sources together], PLUS the parts supplier info on the number of BB hoods and rad supports shipped to Ionia in that time period, and then somehow integrating the two data sets.

Or maybe that still wouldn't work. I don't know if Ionia got paid more for a C60 car or a 396, than a plain-Jane body. I suspect that the agreement with GM stipulated that the body styles and option-heavy bodies were to be divided equally (as far as possible) between the two body plants. Exception -- no tankers from Ionia -- ever.

[James G.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

[QUOTE=Wayne Midkiff (3437);739809]On dangerous ground here, but let's do a little math. From start of L78 production to the EOP, there were roughly 10,700 Corvettes produced. So, 2157 L78s would represent 20% from the start of BB production. As to your question on split of S-body versus A-body (and convertible vs. coupe for that matter), we'd have to solicit trim tag info -- shouldn't be that hard to do with help from viewers to this tech board.

ie. the last convertible (and last L78) is S-7755 with an L30 date. So (to all '65 BB's) let us know your body type, trim tag body # and VIN derivative.


The 65 FUEL INJECTION SURVEY shows the last 65 FI car is a convertible, vin # 23142

Grn/Blk,900GG,C05,C07,G81,N32,N36,P91,Z01, 3:70, F0714HG, Block cast G95, Body S7609, Body build L2, Car built 7-25-65. Believed to be the last real FI car. We need to merge these files. I have 192 convertible, 218 coupes, 156 fuel injection 7017380 units with vin numbers stamped and 9 engines for a total of 576 Fuel Injection cars of the 771 made.

[Stewart L.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

I recently purchased a 65 Big Block Roadster, vin 22879, Body # A7283 and build date July 12, 1965. Trim is 437B and paint is UU. So Loren's car must of been the last convertible built on Fri July 9th and mine was the first one built on Monday July 12.
And even though 7282 and 7283 bodies were built together, the vin on 7283 is 682 cars ahead of body 7282.
Did Ionia possibly skip some numbers in there body numbering sequence?

[Bill W.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

Stewart I thought the AOS cars were shipped to STL. on a dolly and didnt receive a engine / frame until they were at the STL.plant . So they didnt get a serial number until the body was pulled and assembled so there would have been a delay between the body build and the car build dates .
I didnt have your car on my list .If you would like it added please send me any known options , colors and rear gear ratios . Thanks Bill.

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

[
The 65 FUEL INJECTION SURVEY shows the last 65 FI car is a convertible, vin # 23142

Grn/Blk,900GG,C05,C07,G81,N32,N36,P91,Z01, 3:70, F0714HG, Block cast G95, Body S7609, Body build L2, Car built 7-25-65. Believed to be the last real FI car. We need to merge these files. I have 192 convertible, 218 coupes, 156 fuel injection 7017380 units with vin numbers stamped and 9 engines for a total of 576 Fuel Injection cars of the 771 made.

So that F.I. unit for sale at Bloomington, years ago with the 23074 VIN stamp, and advertised as the LAST was mistaken.



c

[Wayne M.]

Re: 65 Big blocks

I recently purchased a 65 Big Block Roadster, vin 22879, Body # A7283 and build date July 12, 1965. Trim is 437B and paint is UU. So Loren's car must of been the last convertible built on Fri July 9th and mine was the first one built on Monday July 12.
And even though 7282 and 7283 bodies were built together, the vin on 7283 is 682 cars ahead of body 7282.
Did Ionia possibly skip some numbers in there body numbering sequence?

Now that's interesting; sequential Ionia convertible body numbers either side of the weekend.

Noland's Vol 2 (pg. 40) looked at body numbers (trim tag) and VINs from Ionia and St. Louis, on the latest cars he had reported in his survey, then added them to see how close to GM's published production totals he could get. Comes up with 15501 convertibles (versus 15376 GM data), so I believe there is an error in his A-body data, as VIN 23304 claims body A-7757 (added to S7744 on convertible 23530).

I have heard there are some L19 Ionia bodies out there, [another Monday] although I have not seen any data.

There was an eBay car 23550 (photo trim tag) A-7608, L16, M-M, STD, F0715HF.
Another: car 23327, photo trim tag A-7472, L15, M-M, 437B.

Seems like a lot of convertible bodies (7472 to 7608 = 136) for [benefit of doubt] 2 full days of production (Thurs & Fri).