D981 Starter Solenoid

[Kenneth H.]

I recently replaced the incorrect starter on my LT1 with a correctly dated 1108338 remanufactured starter that I purchased online. However, we have an issue with it. After the third or fourth start the starter keeps running and we need to disconnect the battery to shut it down. The mechanic (NCRS member) who is working on the car bench tested the starter and found the solenoid to be the problem. We've replaced the solenoid three times so far; each time the replacement being one of the cheap Chinese solenoids which don't seem to work too well.

Anyway, this time the vendor that I purchased the starter from sent me an NOS Delco solenoid. The problem is that the solenoid that he sent is a D981 (1114458) solenoid, and from what I've been able to find out it is listed for use only with the big block cars.

Can anyone tell me if I can use this solenoid with my 1108338 starter?

Thanks.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Prior to starting this thread I searched the forum for any information about this solenoid. However, I failed to perform the same search in the archives, where I found my answer. As I understand it, the 1114458 solenoid is original equipment on some later corvettes, but is also the service replacement for many different solenoids, including for my LT1. While reading one of the archived threads Joe L. referred to the starter "hot restart problem". Can anyone tell me what Joe was referring to?

Thanks.

[Joe L.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Prior to starting this thread I searched the forum for any information about this solenoid. However, I failed to perform the same search in the archives, where I found my answer. As I understand it, the 1114458 solenoid is original equipment on some later corvettes, but is also the service replacement for many different solenoids, including for my LT1. While reading one of the archived threads Joe L. referred to the starter "hot restart problem". Can anyone tell me what Joe was referring to?

Thanks.

Ken-------


I've discussed it in several threads over the years. The problem involves a failure of the starter to turn over the engine when a restart is attempted, often in hot ambient temp conditions, after a shutdown of only 5-15 minutes. Usually, when this occurs the car sounds like it has a dead battery. However, after a longer period of time and some cool-down the engine will start with no problem, at all.

This is a fairly common problem. I chased this problem for years and tried EVERYTHING imaginable to solve it. The only solution I ever found that was 100% effective was the installation of a slave (remote) secondary solenoid.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Joe, thanks for the reply. I was concerned that the excess heat was causing the solenoid to fail and that was what was causing the starter to malfunction. My issue is that the starter works OK when the engine is cold, but when the engine is hot the starter continues to run on even when I remove the key from the ignition.

Thanks.

[Richard M.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

I used a NAPA Heavy Duty solenoid and a aftermarket insulation wrap on the last 427 starter I replaced.

This was after I had the standard solenoid on it. Because the starter is so close to the stock exhaust manifold, the standard solenoid plastic/bakelite cover had signs of melting.

The insulation blanket seemed to help hot restart issues and prevented solenoid excessive heat.

IIRC, this was the solenoid
ECH ST-124

This may have been the insulation....
BKN HED8812

or this one, I forget.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-14150?seid=srese1&gclid=CMrfq-6I9sUCFdURHwodqnIAlw

Rich

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Rich, thanks for the reply. I found out today that the starter heat shield was missing so I ordered a replacement. If that doesn't work I'll need to go to "plan b" or "plan c", "plan b" which is using the wrap as you suggested, and "plan c" which is Joe L.'s remote secondary solenoid solution. I'm hoping that "plan a" works though, which is installing the Delco 1114458 NOS solenoid and the reinstallation of the heat shield.

Thanks.

[Joe L.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Rich, thanks for the reply. I found out today that the starter heat shield was missing so I ordered a replacement. If that doesn't work I'll need to go to "plan b" or "plan c", "plan b" which is using the wrap as you suggested, and "plan c" which is Joe L.'s remote secondary solenoid solution. I'm hoping that "plan a" works though, which is installing the Delco 1114458 NOS solenoid and the reinstallation of the heat shield.

Thanks.

Ken-------


Based on your description of the problem, I don't think the remote solenoid would resolve it. It might, but I have no reason to believe that it would. Your problem sounds different than the one that I had and which is quite common. I have never heard of a problem like you described.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Joe, I might have misstated the problem, so let me add some history. I originally took the car in to the mechanic because I was having constant problems starting it and when it did start it ran horribly, it didn't have any power, and it pinged constantly. This had been going on for a couple of years but I couldn't find anyone in my area who knew what he was doing. Finally an NCRS member who is an exceptional mechanic offered to help. The starter that was installed worked fine, but it wasn't correct (it was a starter from a 1961 passenger car) and also one of the mounts on the nose was broken. We decided to replace it so I found a correct 1108338 starter on line.

When the mechanic installed it and tried starting it a few times, the starter would keep running, even with the key in the off position. He uninstalled it and tested it on the bench, and had the same problem. I contacted the vendor and both he and the mechanic thought the problem was a bad solenoid, so he sent me a new replacement. He didn't want me to return the old solenoid because he said that it would cost more to return than the solenoid was worth. I assumed from this that the solenoids that he was using weren't top of the line and he did say that they were manufactured in China. We installed the new solenoid and had the same problem.


I then sent the starter to an auto electric company that the vendor works with and got it back two weeks later. My mechanic installed it and finished the tune-up and everything seemed fine. When I picked it up it started and ran great, and when I got it home (about a 15 minute drive) I wanted to show my wife how easily it started. I shut it down and when I turned the key to start it the battery sounded like it was almost out of juice and the starter kept turning even after I removed the key.

I then called the vendor again and he sent me another replacement solenoid, but this time an NOS 1114458 Delco solenoid. Also, while reading some of the other threads, I realized that I didn't have a starter heat shield installed, so I just purchased one. Once we receive the heat shield the mechanic will install everything and I'll keep my fingers crossed that this time everything works out OK.

Thanks.

Just another note that I wanted to add: Since I had the starting problem last Saturday, I tried to start it on numerous occasions and it started great every time. That's why I thought that it might be a heat problem.

[Domenic T.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Ken,
Had the HOT starter problem as was mentioned," a common problem". The car wouldn't start till the starter cooled. I once drove the car right into my shop after a long drive and put it up on the rack. Like always it wouldn't start so I quickly changed it and it started. It was only that the starter was hot. I knew I had to figure how to keep it coolvas heat = resistance. I didn't have a good way to do that so I always looked for a slight hill when I had to stop for gas or whatever. It was my driver. One day while going to work I stopped for gas and it wouldn't start. The more attempts the hotter it got and I was going to be late for work. At that point I wasn't going to wait for it to cool and didn't want to push start it so I took the water hose that was on the gas island and ran water over the starter for about 20 seconds. It started right up. The hot starter syndrome.
On another occasion years later and different engine, I was installing the lock section of my ignition switch. The lock wasn't in so I started it by turning the inside of the switch with a screwdriver. One time the starter would not shut down while I was working on the car so I disconnected the battery. I changed the solenoid and all seemed good for 2 more tries ( with the screwdriver) and it did it again. I found that I was not returning the ignition switch to off. That told me that ignition switches can wear and not contact correctly.
Not saying that these are your problems, just a few stories.

Dom

[Joe L.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Ken,
Had the HOT starter problem as was mentioned," a common problem". The car wouldn't start till the starter cooled. I once drove the car right into my shop after a long drive and put it up on the rack. Like always it wouldn't start so I quickly changed it and it started. It was only that the starter was hot. I knew I had to figure how to keep it coolvas heat = resistance. I didn't have a good way to do that so I always looked for a slight hill when I had to stop for gas or whatever. It was my driver. One day while going to work I stopped for gas and it wouldn't start. The more attempts the hotter it got and I was going to be late for work. At that point I wasn't going to wait for it to cool and didn't want to push start it so I took the water hose that was on the gas island and ran water over the starter for about 20 seconds. It started right up. The hot starter syndrome.
On another occasion years later and different engine, I was installing the lock section of my ignition switch. The lock wasn't in so I started it by turning the inside of the switch with a screwdriver. One time the starter would not shut down while I was working on the car so I disconnected the battery. I changed the solenoid and all seemed good for 2 more tries ( with the screwdriver) and it did it again. I found that I was not returning the ignition switch to off. That told me that ignition switches can wear and not contact correctly.
Not saying that these are your problems, just a few stories.

Dom

Dom------

I agree. With the starter continuing to run after the switch is turned off, I would also suspect that the problem is with the ignition switch.

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Something that I didn't mention, since there are so many things that I've done to get the LT1 back to "correct", is that I replaced the ignition coil (not correct) with a 272 GM Restoration coil some time ago. Although it didn't fit well (larger diameter) it seemed to work OK. Since the original (not correct) ignition coil worked fine before I replaced it, we're going to reinstall it, as well. The thing is that the starting system worked OK before we replaced the starter. I never had a problem with the ignition switch or the coil (that I'm aware of) before we installed the new starter.

[Terry M.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Just a wild guess here, but you did hook up the black wire in the wire bundle to the solenoid to one of the starter mounting bolts and not to the positive post on the solenoid?

[Richard M.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

I agree that the Ignition Switch is a good suspect. This could be tested on the hot restart, but tricky on the C3 cars isn't it as it's tough to get at the switch. If the condition happens, can the harness plug be pulled right at the Ign switch easily? On a '70 I don't recall if the switch is in the dash or deep down on top of the column. If so, and the starter stops turning, problem found.

Or.....
Since the problem only began after the starter was initially changed, and appeared consistently related to heat, I have another possible scenario.

It's possible due to heat over the years that the harness near the starter has been compromised. It was fine until it got moved around while changing starters and solenoids several times. It's possible that inside the harness, the main feed(Blk #12?) and the solenoid(Violet)? wire have a intermittent short only affected by heat when the melting of insulation reoccurs due to heat.

The above test, by pulling the plug on the Ign switch could help diagnose. If when pulled, the starter continues to run, then it could be a clue that the Ign switch is good and the harness is the fault. If so, I would open the harness from the solenoid back and take a good close look at all of the wiring.

Rich

[Kenneth H.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

Terry, I don't know the answer to your question, but I'll bring it up to the mechanic the next time I talk to him. I took the car over to him this morning and he's going to do the work later this week.

Rich, good point about the wires being comprised. I'll also have him look to see that the wires are in good condition.

Also, originally he was able to replicate the problem during the bench test when the starter was out of the car. He hasn't tried that lately, though.

I'll also ask him to take a closer look at the ignition switch to see if that is the problem.

Thanks everyone.

[Joe L.]

Re: D981 Starter Solenoid

On a '70 I don't recall if the switch is in the dash or deep down on top of the column.

Rich

Rich-------


On all 1969+ C3 the switch is "buried" in the lower column. Very hard to access. This is by design as it's supposed to be a "theft prevention" measure.