1959 Power Top System

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Joel, I don't own a 61/62 original RPO 473 car, but all of the deck lid safety switch buttons I have ever seen, and that is a small number due to rarity, are black Bakelite. It is possible that a change to brown was made for 61/62. Maybe someone will provide a definite answer.
Joe

[Dan D.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

14 Awg. is perfect for 12-15 amps. I knew you did it right.

Forgot the one you did was a 56.

-Dan-

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Here is a reference photo collage from the 1956 system modification I construed using the 4 relays and showing the 14G link harness, along with the 12G fused feed wire to provide the source supply voltage to the relay switch contacts. As mentioned previously, all of this is probably about 99.5% undetectable in judging. I promise I won't tell where the 0.5% is.....
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I tinkered with the Micro switches to get their dates yesterday while relaxing. One switch on each bracket had to be removed to find it's date codes. All 4 are ink stamped " 8 60 ". I tested all of the switches and all work properly out to the connector terminals. I'll be disassembling the harnesses and removing the switches for cleaning and freeing them from the brackets for the planned zinc plating of the brackets eventually.

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Looking closely at the switches, it appears that the only way to get inside them for possible repair, if needed, it to split them at the joint around the perimeter of the switch. I won't have to attempt that as these are functioning.

The brass button under the roller latch tang is captured internally so I doubt it could be removed without opening the switch. The switch halves are likely tab locked or glued together. Here you can see the brass button below the tang. If the tang is raised the button is still captured so it doesn't fall out.
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Here is a close-up of the manufacturers marks on the side bracket which houses the top frame limit switches. Appears to be "AMC" in a unique script. There is also a special clip to hold the harness plug. I may have the plug on backwards I'll have to check the AIM but it seems the harness isn't long enough to mount the plug the opposite way. The clip has what appears to be a ID marking also but I can't make it out. I may be able to identify it after light glass media blasting in preparation for plating. I will be using my less abrasive old used glass bead to clean all of the pieces to preserve their finish as much as possible before plating.
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For reference, the deck lid and trunk safety switches on this unit both have black push button plungers.

Decklid
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Trunk
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The 1956 system I restored last year also had black buttons on both switches.

Decklid
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Trunk
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[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Last night I needed some relax time so I dug into the PT stuff for a while. Crazy at it seems, this kind of thing is relaxing to me, albeit headache material.

First up were the solenoids. I needed the clean the rust and plungers and do a temporary wrap of the wire coils with vinyl tape so I could test them. I will acquire original type cloth white adhesive tape for final wrapping.

Before cleaning....
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I carefully shielded the coil wiring while using my bench motorized wire wheel the clean the rust from the housings. THe ground for the coils is staked to a special nub on the bottom so very careful there.
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The plungers were thoroughly cleaned and include a special spacer washer inside. I'm uncertain the purpose of that spacer as I don't recall them on the 1956 units I did before. Maybe to add additional tension to the spring.
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I installed the cleaned plungers and attached the spring clips and gave them all a quick test using my ohmmeter and all measured about 0.8 ohms. I'm not sure of the spec but at least they were not short circuited internally, i.e 0.1 ohms or less. I then used my 12 Volt high current power source. They all worked fine at 12 volts. Each drew about 15 Amps on the Ammeter built in to the power source. I then removed all of the plungers to ready the installation of the rubber seals and washers after cleaning them.
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The rubber seals and steel washers were cleaned. I noted their dimensions for future reference. The seals are the barrier between the fluid and the coil wiring. The seal mates with the valve housing and is held in place with the dual solenoid cover. I'll show this later.
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I then assembled the pieces permanently. First is the rubber seal then the washer, the plunger assembly, then while holding the plunger down the clip is installed.
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All 4 done and tested. I will wrap them with tape later.
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I then decided to rebuild the motor and pump for some tests before I commit the pieces to the zinc plating shop. If you remember the "before" pictures, it was all quite nasty. Rather than tossing it and getting a replacement pump, I much prefer restoring the original. It has been discussed that replacement pumps are not as rugged as the originals.

The pump housing and internals. After a substantial effort I got the nasty sludge removed. The impellers are in good condition and the housing bore appears it may have survived. I used my fiberglass erasers on all pieces to prevent scratching of any surfaces.
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I then used my machinists flat table and 1500 grit to flatten all components clean.
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A final cleanup of the pieces.
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I then tore into the electric motor. I did a general cleaning to do a pre-test of the assembly. First I cleaned the armature commutator using the backside of my x-acto cutter. THen a wipe down with a shop towel. I may shave the commutator on my lathe later.
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I assembled the armature to the endplate after a little oil on the shafts to lube the bushings. I then tested the motor before installing the pump impellers and end cap. The motor spun up fine and saw no problems. It was a very high speed.

The front (drive)shaft of the motor requires a o-ring seal. When I cleaned the pump housing I paid close attention to the seal bore to make sure there were no flaws. Before the inner impeller is installed, the o-ring is installed over the shaft and seated into the counterbore of the bushing area, then the inner impeller keeper-ball was installed on the shaft. Then the impeller is installed and then the outer circular impeller gear. Before installing the pieces I dribbled some ATF inside the bore and the pieces. Everything rotated smoothly. Note that the distances between the pieces is critical for correct pressure. I will be testing the pump using a gauge later to verify my results.
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There are 2 check valve steel balls that must be installed in the housing before the cover is installed.
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After installing the pump cover I gave the assembly a quick electrical test. It seemed fine no load. Pressure testing later.
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===

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

I've been PT(part time) tearing into this PT(power top) system, very nasty inside. Lot's of cleaning but I'm gaining on it. The valve bodies are now fine and all ports cleaned and the plunger seats in the lower cavity are still good, along with all plunger side port surfaces.
More gory details here......

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/Misc/Power%20Top%20Unit/Cleaning%20and%20Prep

and some here too... I used many solvents to try to break up the 55 year old DOT 3 Brake Fluid/Corrosion elements, alcohol seemed to work best. It turned it into a waxy gooey semi-solid I could then clean away.

All steel 1/8 NPT fittings were seized into the alloy valve bodies. For fear of damage to the bodies I cut each head off then step drilled and removed each thread remnant. I'll use brass plugs when I rebuild them to save the next guy in 50 years or so all the trouble I had.
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I've been studying my 1959 AIM RPO 473 section. Also using the 1961 AIM RPO 473 which has a few changes but not major.

I've discovered I'm missing some body related mount brackets. The Tee nuts for the decklid cylinder switch bracket and cover are no big problem. I can get/make those.

I'll need the following.....Pics of AIM here.....

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/Misc/Power%20Top%20Unit/Documentation

and here...
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For the Pass side limit switch lever assy next to the seat/siil. 1961 AIM RPO 473 Sht 3 View D
3744123 nut plate for the switch support assembly that rivets to the underbody. (I just looked at the floor on my '59 and there appears to be remnants of holes there. Not sure what they are or if some are for the nutplate)

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The decklid cylinder trunk mount nut plates. 1961 AIM RPO 473 Sht 4

3716361 The two nut plates that rivet to the underbody that the lower cylinder pivot bracket mounts to.

3728132 The Motor/Pump/Valve bracket nut plates ("Anchor Nut" in the AIM) but they only show it in the middle, not for the left end. Probably same part as the 2 holes are same distance apart. They show the left nutplate on Sht 2 where the ground strap connects but no part# for the nutplate. It must be the same.
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I've emailed my Power Top friend John Schell with this info to see if he can help me find these items.

Rich

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

I don't know your position on purchasing parts from Dr. Rebuild, but he has numerous power top parts; including NOS nuts and bolts. Just don't purchase an original micro switch from him. No need to pay over $100 when a modern version is around $20 shipped.
Joe

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

I don't know your position on purchasing parts from Dr. Rebuild, but he has numerous power top parts; including NOS nuts and bolts. Just don't purchase an original micro switch from him. No need to pay over $100 when a modern version is around $20 shipped.
Joe

Thanks for the info Joe, Yes I've bought from the Doc before. He has some unique parts but didn't even think of him. I'll check it out. Fortunately all of my micro switches are fine for now, and since I'm going to use those relays in my modified design they should last a long time.

John Schell got back to me yesterday. What a great guy. He and I have spent hours on the phone since I met him at Carlisle a few years ago. We share lots of good info on these systems and I've passed along all of my docs and colorized diagrams to him. He has given me much information too and is a very sharing person. So much so, that he is loaning me some of is rare original bracket parts for me to fabricate here myself.

As it stands now, all of the important and rare pieces are working and rebuildable. The hoses look like they may be okay too but need to be flushed out and the pistons are full of fluid and the shafts look fine so I may be able to use those. If not, I'll get the replacements. I'm anxious to get the system working on the bench but too many other priorities right now so it'll have to wait. More to come when I get some more free time.

If you make it over to the Winter Regional in January we'll have to get together again there like we did in Kissimmee a few times. Last year in Lakeland it was really boring for me at night and would like to plan some evenings out with the guys I know and have some fun talking Corvette stuff.

Thanks,
Rich

[Frank D.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

O/T but I have to ask - are you volunteering again this year at Lakeland Rich ??

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

O/T but I have to ask - are you volunteering again this year at Lakeland Rich ??

Yes, 5 days this time......Wednesday through Sunday. Tyler and I have been talking about the plans. I'm doing some Maps and Guides to help with directions and I committed last January to come back when he "demanded" I return........so it must be done. I had such a great time working with/for him last year. He's a great person to befriend.

Latest plan is to Trailer my friend Bob's '67 out there for Sportsman Display and he may want to enter it in the Saturday Corvette Show. He and I will figure that out. So it looks like I won't take my '59 unless someone drives it out there for me. Wifey already said she wouldn't. She's a Powerglide girl ever since she had her automatic E-Type and her '63 SWC.

If I get my Power Top working in my '59, I may put a trailer hitch on the back(It had one 30+ years ago) and tow Bob's car out there using that as the Big Red Trailer you've seen has great electric brakes

Rich
ps just kidding about the '59 hitch but I have to say I imagined doing that. Probably need to upgrade it with a 502 crate motor and a Posi though.

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Rich, I will be registering soon for FL Regional.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Quick update. I cleaned a few more pieces in my rust remover solution and had to do a heavy bead blast of the solenoid valve cover internal cavities. The rust was quite heavy there if you recall.

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I test fit the solenoids and now fit fine. I originally had to pry them out of the rust encased cavities. Note that the ground for the solenoids is a mechanical connection of the solenoid rear metal housing to three tabs which protrude in the covers. I'll have to come up with a corrosion free coating for the solenoids. I have some weldable primer I may experiment with. I think it's metallic.
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Dribs and drabs of tinkering on this project, but I'm gaining on it.

Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Today I got the nutplates in the mail from John Schell. Nice of him to help me.

I'll need some 1/4 steel stock and some 0.650" steel plate to make them.
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Lid Cylinder nutplates. One of each needed.
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Top Limit Switch mount. I'm sure I won't be able to find those special square nuts, so I'll tack weld some regular square nuts on after drilling holes. Bolts are 1/4", Screws are #10-24
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Motor/Pump/Valve Bracket mounts. I need to make two of these.
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Rich

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Hooked up my USB micro camera this morning for a quick look inside the valves. Hard to get photos using a regular digital camera. I need to clean out more old DOT 3 junk. That stuff is like Portland cement.

https://youtu.be/bAFWMCe1EMk

It's a little shaky so I hope nobody gets dizzy and falls down. I'll let YT fix it later.

[Ken A.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Rich, email me your address, Ken.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

I can't believe it has been a year and a half since I started doing this for my own '59 Corvette. Well, it's time for ME now. I'm done with my last project car and back on my own projects. After I get it restored and running, I will then replace my 25 year old vinyl soft top, which I did in 1992, with a new Sta-Fast fabric black top I bought from a buddy over 3 years ago. The Sta-Fast will be a much more durable top for all of that fun I'm going to have watching the top go up and down with a flip of a switch. I have been wanting a power top for 31 years and I'm determined to get this done.

I have all of the pieces. I will restore everything I can, and REFUSE to use ANY imported parts. I even got GM NOS rubber feet for the pump motor bracketry.

Today I'm resurrecting my restoration of this system. Heading out with all of the pieces to my zinc plater today. I'll update along the way.

Rich