Mufflers for a '64

[Michael J.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

You need carbon steel pipes.
The original mufflers weren't carbon steel.

OK, what were they? They are always judged as being magnetic, like the pipes. I know they had a galvanized coating, but weren't they magnetic?

BTW, the only choices you have are carbon steel, aluminized, or stainless steel, and only carbon steel is magnetic.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

OK, what were they? They are always judged as being magnetic, like the pipes. I know they had a galvanized coating, but weren't they magnetic?

BTW, the only choices you have are carbon steel, aluminized, or stainless steel, and only carbon steel is magnetic.

Galvanized with, I believe, stainless end plates.

[Michael J.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

That could be, the originals I have seen we never test the end plates, just the muffler bottoms/sides for being magnetic. I will have to test my NOS N11 set and see if it has SS ends, I have never checked.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

That could be, the originals I have seen we never test the end plates, just the muffler bottoms/sides for being magnetic. I will have to test my NOS N11 set and see if it has SS ends, I have never checked.

I suspect that they will be both magnetic and stainless. They were not high quality stainless; they just had to not rust immediately due to the fact that there was a drain hole in them.

[Joe R.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

OK, what were they? They are always judged as being magnetic, like the pipes. I know they had a galvanized coating, but weren't they magnetic?

BTW, the only choices you have are carbon steel, aluminized, or stainless steel, and only carbon steel is magnetic.

Michael,

Some versions of stainless steel are magnetic. Here's some more credible evidence to back up my statement:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-dont-magnets-work-on/

Joe

[Michael J.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

+1 on the Corvette Central N11 pipes and mufflers. Put carbon steel ones on my car about 1-1/2 years ago and like the sound. Buy the complete deal and catch it at the right time and it is free shipping also! Fits perfect. Clamps and tips are no where near original. Use your old stuff if you have it. I did buy some of Greg Thompson's clamps recently and replaced the old ones I had that were close but not quite right. Greg's are supposed to be the best from what i was told in Denver. good luck. Can't wait to see her!

John, thanks for the tips on the clamps and tips. I do hope you can see her at a SoCal chapter meet before long!

[Duke W.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

Thanks guys, another question. This car is a fuelie and has original 2 1/2" pipes, but the N11 is not listed on the window sticker as an option, do I still want N11 mufflers? Was that part of the FI option in '64?

N11 was an unrestricted option on any engine/transmission combination that had 2.5" pipes (375, 365 HP, and 300 HP w/manual trans.). The entire option was merely the substitution of a different rear pipe/muffler section. Everything else was the same. There is no way to determine if N-11 was an original plant installed option other than the original window sticker, dealer copy of the build order, or other original documentation that shows the build configuration, and if you have such it is of no use to show the judging team as there are no bonus points for original build documentation.

See page 32 of the GM Heritage '64 Vehicle Information Package pdf for details on muffler construction and materials.

Duke

[Michael J.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

N11 was an unrestricted option on any engine/transmission combination that had 2.5" pipes (375, 365 HP, and 300 HP w/manual trans.). The entire option was merely the substitution of a different rear pipe/muffler section. Everything else was the same. There is no way to determine if N-11 was an original plant installed option other than the original window sticker, dealer copy of the build order, or other original documentation that shows the build configuration, and if you have such it is of no use to show the judging team as there are no bonus points for original build documentation.

See page 32 of the GM Heritage '64 Vehicle Information Package pdf for details on muffler construction and materials.

Duke

[James W.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

They offer aluminized and stainless. They don't have plain carbon steel listed. They may be able to build them. I have no idea how they do against the judging standards. http://www.allencorvetteexhaustsystems.com/

See my post above on how the entire Allen's Stainless "aluminized" N11 exhaust system was judged at chapter, regional and recent national meets.


Thanks,

James

[Patrick H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

See my post above on how the entire Allen's Stainless "aluminized" N11 exhaust system was judged at chapter, regional and recent national meets.


Thanks,

James

In theory aluminized pipes receive a 25% standard deduction no matter who makes them. It's in the Judging Reference Manual.

[Michael J.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

I thinking any replacement mufflers (clamp on types), as long as they are magnetic, will get the same deductions, whether they are Corvette Central, NOS GM embossed part number replacement ones, or even older Wagner replacements.

[Don H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

any aluminized exhaust components should receive 25% standard deduction at a minimum and then also additional deductions for deviations from CDCIF as well as for condition.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

any aluminized exhaust components should receive 25% standard deduction at a minimum and then also additional deductions for deviations from CDCIF as well as for condition.

I would go back and read the JRM. Unless many of us have judge incorrectly, standard deductions are standard, not a minimum or starting point. Think of the paint standard deductions - you get the points you get, the judge doesn't use your deduction as a starting point and then keep deducting.

Aluminized is a flat 25%, stainless is 50%. Like other standard deductions, on the CDCIF side that's all there is, nothing additional. On the 68-72 there are 8 points in each appropriate section for originality, so with aluminized you lose 2 of the 8 for pipes, 2 of the 8 for mufflers. In the end it's a gift, as using CDCIF you'd lose 5-6 points for pipes and 3-4 for the muffler if judged under those standards.

Condition remains, of course, condition.

Additional deductions are often taken for clamps, hangers, and other issues that are different line items.

[Harry S.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

Agree with Patrick, Standard Deducts trump CDCIF. Cannot use both together.

[Don H.]

Re: Mufflers for a '64

Thank you Dr. and Harry.
But, I disagree. JRM, 8th Ed. Section 4, Para.6, Pg. 32, SS or Alum replacement components: paraphrased - "These are minimum deductions for use of detectable replacement parts, which were not originally constructed....etc. The deduction MAY be larger if the component is not correctly configured."

Patrick,
the way I read the Standard Deduction guidelines and the way I have been taught by team leaders is that the aluminized/SS deduction is not specific to any given part, ie. the exhaust system. The Standard deduction for paragraph six covers the metal of any part, but the part itself still gets its configuration and installation evaluated per CDCIF (unless it is a specified part in the SD guidelines). In fact, per the book the alum/SS system loses 25% or 50% off the top, AND then also a couple points for pipes and a couple points for mufflers. This is a subtle difference from all the other Standard deduction paragraphs that apply to specific parts., ie headlights, tires, batteries, windshields, etc. I will agree that many judges may not evaluate alum/SS exhaust systems this way.