1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock - NCRS Discussion Boards

1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

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  • Chuck G.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • May 31, 1982
    • 2029

    1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

    Doing some odds and ends jobs on the 63. Wanted to adjust the AM radio trimmer screw. In order to do so on the 63 AM and AM/FM radios, you have to remove the RT side radio panel.

    When I turned on the AM radio, there was a constant TICK TICK TICK TICK coming through the speaker. Further investigation showed that the AM radio ticks in cadence with the clock. The clock is original... not quartz converted. Every movement of the second hand of the clock around the clock face produces a crackling "tick" through the radio speaker.

    I shut off all other electrical devices in the garage.... neon lights, TV, fan, etc. No effect on the "ticking".

    I rarely listen to AM radio, but this doesn't seem right.

    Any thoughts before I button this up again?

    BTW, the sticker on the side of the radio says to adjust the trimmer to the loudest volume at a station down near 600 on the AM dial. I did so.
    1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
    2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
    1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod
  • Richard M.
    Super Moderator
    • August 31, 1988
    • 11302

    #2
    Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

    Chuck, You certainly get some unusual issues. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

    Are you certain it's quartz? Some repro movements have a ticking movement and sound function.

    The ticking of the original clock is unpowered ticking, until the solenoid clicks on rewind. U65/U69 radio option never had a condenser on the clock, so I'm at a loss. For giggles, add another ground to the radio case with a jumper and see if any change.

    Maybe Jerry Rudbeck has experienced this phenomenon before. If you get no where maybe send him a PM.

    Strange.

    Comment

    • Chuck G.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • May 31, 1982
      • 2029

      #3
      Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

      Originally posted by Richard Mozzetta (13499)
      Chuck, You certainly get some unusual issues. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

      Are you certain it's quartz? Some repro movements have a ticking movement and sound function.

      The ticking of the original clock is unpowered ticking, until the solenoid clicks on rewind. U65/U69 radio option never had a condenser on the clock, so I'm at a loss. For giggles, add another ground to the radio case with a jumper and see if any change.

      Maybe Jerry Rudbeck has experienced this phenomenon before. If you get no where maybe send him a PM.

      Strange.
      This clock has been repaired in the past, but it hasn't been out of the dash for 20 years or more. I certainly don't remember having it "quartzed"... The second hand jumps at what appears to be 1/2 second intervals.

      I suppose I could dig out the receipt showing who repaired it and what year it was repaired.

      I'll try the extra ground wire.

      Chuck
      1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
      2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
      1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod

      Comment

      • Frank D.
        Expired
        • December 27, 2007
        • 2703

        #4
        Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

        I never experienced being 'ticked off' by the mechanical clock and the original radio in my '63 Chuck...
        Rich has it right -- the intermediate ticking is just the escapement mechanism working (no electricity involved); when the clock's points meet electricity is involved in winding the spring (or so I am told)... I would remove the power lead from the clock - let it run to a stop and try your 'tick test' again...

        Comment

        • Chuck G.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • May 31, 1982
          • 2029

          #5
          Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

          Went to the garage. Battery turned off, clock not running.

          Turned on the battery. Heard the characteristic "thunk" of the clock wind mechanism.

          Clock was running fine. Disconnected the battery and the clock kept running for a minute or two.

          Turned the radio on to AM... and I still get the static "click click click" thru the radio speaker with every jump of the clock's second hand.

          Tried an extra ground wire...using alligator clips, in several locations on the radio body. No change.

          With the engine running, you'd probably never hear it, and hardly anyone listens to AM anyway.
          1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
          2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
          1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod

          Comment

          • Bob R.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • June 30, 2002
            • 1595

            #6
            Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

            By disconnecting the battery and noticing the clock second hand move you proved you have an original movement on the clock and not quartz.

            Comment

            • Richard M.
              Super Moderator
              • August 31, 1988
              • 11302

              #7
              Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

              Definitely stock radio. Very strange. I think your clock and radio are haunted.

              Okay, last thing to try. Ground the clock AND the radio with another jumper to the Z-Bar.

              And maybe one other.......You Park Brake is on? Could it be the PB flasher bulb in sync that you're hearing in the speaker and also in sync with the clock? That'd be a hoot.

              Comment

              • Frank D.
                Expired
                • December 27, 2007
                • 2703

                #8
                Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                Hmmm....does the parking brake dash light flash in the ACC position ?
                I've never tried it...if not he could use that position for the tick test...
                The Bubba in me just wants to wrap the clock housing in aluminum foil (to match my hat) and call it a day

                Comment

                • Stuart F.
                  Expired
                  • August 31, 1996
                  • 4676

                  #9
                  Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                  Does it click outdoors? Sometimes AM radios will pick up the darnest noises when low on signal inside a garage. Even my driver 07 VW does that, but mostly static with the broadcast in my garage. Outside the garage door it's fine.

                  Stu Fox

                  Comment

                  • Ken A.
                    Very Frequent User
                    • July 31, 1986
                    • 929

                    #10
                    Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                    The ticking is entirely normal and you can get the same effect by rubbing a screwdriver along the antenna cable. If you want to eliminate the ticking run a ground to the clock.

                    Comment

                    • Chuck G.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • May 31, 1982
                      • 2029

                      #11
                      Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                      Interesting, Rich and Ken. I didn't try grounding the clock. Frank, I'll try the aluminum foil trick as a last resort.

                      To add a few more facts... it ticks in the garage or out of the garage. It ticks with the antenna fully up or fully down. It ticks with the motor running or not running. It ticks in the ACC position or the ON position on the ignition switch.

                      The parking light telltale is not flashing, nor is the headlight telltale.

                      Odd that I never paid attention to this before.

                      I reinstalled the radio side panel and called it quits for now. Spent about an hour jockeying cars around, and am now working on some wiring "issues" in my 37 Chevy.
                      1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
                      2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
                      1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod

                      Comment

                      • Joe R.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • July 31, 1976
                        • 4547

                        #12
                        Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                        Don't waste your time grounding the clock. If it works it is already grounded.

                        Grounds are not the root of all evil! Just some evil!

                        JR

                        Comment

                        • Richard M.
                          Super Moderator
                          • August 31, 1988
                          • 11302

                          #13
                          Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                          If this is normal, then every C1, C2 and C3 Judging Guide needs to be updated to include this "design feature" in Operations Testing.

                          Of course I'm kidding.... But, I think it's a radio fault, subtle as it may be. Is it worth trying to figure out why? For most, no. But for a anal engineer like myself, I want to know why. I'm thinking that the radio is just aged and may be showing signs of weak components and allowing more interference than originally designed.

                          I have a working old original AM radio and working clock in my '59 and will see if it happens on that one too. The clock stays disconnected and haven't run the radio since Kissimmee '08 judging so I hope it still works. It passed OPs then and got no deducts for "ticking in the radio".

                          The mechanism in the C2 clock uses a forked flat lever and coil spring flywheel as a pendulum mechanism. The flywheel rotates CW then CCW and repeats until the windup solenoid spring relaxes and the electrical contact actives it all over again. I don't understand how this moving flywheel and forked lever pendulum inside a grounded metal case can be affecting AM signals.

                          A few pics of a '63 clock I repaired a while ago. That tilted flywheel(the fault on this one) has a coil spring attached to it which drives a forked lever which moves the clock gears to the hands. The ticking sound is heard each time the forked lever swings to each end. I have another clock somewhere and will get a photo later.



                          For reference, that little bushing needed to be re-pressed into the frame a tad more and fixed this clock.







                          Rich
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • Dan D.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • November 5, 2008
                            • 1323

                            #14
                            Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                            Hi Rich,

                            This is classic watch design, before quartz was invented. C1's don't have a sweep second hand like the C2's do, but the design is the same. In clock technology this is called a balance wheel and escape mechanism. Nothing electrical here, so I too do not understand just what is going on with the OPs clock and radio.

                            However, I can tell you these low frequency AM radios are very venerable to externally generated noise. Things like fluorescent lights render them unusable, the noise is so bad. Fluorescent light noise is both conducted (on the power line) and radiated (RF signal). This is why our plastic cars require ignition shielding and bypass capacitors on flashers, headlight switches, and elsewhere.

                            Now while the escapement mechanism is non-electrical, it can still create some noise. So just how this noise is getting to the radio is the question, and can the radio be configured the eliminate it. Or, can it be eliminated before it leaves the clock.

                            To solve this problem, you must first determine if the noise is radiated, or conducted, or both. I believe Chuck said he tried disconnecting the power lead from the clock and he still got the noise. He can also take the clock out of the dash and see if the noise goes away. Or, how far away does the clock need to be before the noise is eliminated.

                            This noise is probably radiated, which is much harder to eliminate. But this condition does not occur in other cars or we would have heard about it long before this. And there would have been numerous complaints when the cars were new. So something has gone wrong in Chuck's car.

                            It is possible that a bypass capacitor in the radio has failed. Capacitors are the weak link in these old radios. They deteorite over time.

                            So I don't think I have solved this problem, but hopefully I have given Chuck some more ideas to try. Interesting problem.

                            -Dan-

                            Comment

                            • Chuck G.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • May 31, 1982
                              • 2029

                              #15
                              Re: 1963 AM Radio "Ticks" In Cadence With The Clock

                              Originally posted by Dan Dillingham (49672)

                              However, I can tell you these low frequency AM radios are very venerable to externally generated noise. Things like fluorescent lights render them unusable, the noise is so bad. Fluorescent light noise is both conducted (on the power line) and radiated (RF signal). This is why our plastic cars require ignition shielding and bypass capacitors on flashers, headlight switches, and elsewhere.

                              Now while the escapement mechanism is non-electrical, it can still create some noise. So just how this noise is getting to the radio is the question, and can the radio be configured the eliminate it. Or, can it be eliminated before it leaves the clock.

                              To solve this problem, you must first determine if the noise is radiated, or conducted, or both. I believe Chuck said he tried disconnecting the power lead from the clock and he still got the noise. He can also take the clock out of the dash and see if the noise goes away. Or, how far away does the clock need to be before the noise is eliminated.

                              This noise is probably radiated, which is much harder to eliminate. But this condition does not occur in other cars or we would have heard about it long before this. And there would have been numerous complaints when the cars were new. So something has gone wrong in Chuck's car.

                              It is possible that a bypass capacitor in the radio has failed. Capacitors are the weak link in these old radios. They deteorite over time.

                              So I don't think I have solved this problem, but hopefully I have given Chuck some more ideas to try. Interesting problem.

                              -Dan-
                              Dan, I did not disconnect the power to the clock, nor did I remove the clock.

                              To be honest, I wasn't in the mood to remove the glove box liner to gain access. There was no way that I could fit my gorilla paw hands up through the radio side panel to gain access to the clock wiring connector and the two clips that hold the clock in.

                              "Next time" I have things apart, I'll investigate further, but for now, the car is buttoned up, ready for its' next cruise.

                              I can say that at some time in the past, both the clock and the radio have been rebuilt.

                              I am amazed that I can get about 5-6 AM stations up and down the dial, and I live out in the hinterlands.

                              Chuck
                              1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
                              2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
                              1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot Rod

                              Comment

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