Brake pads revisited

[Gary R.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Interesting the pads vary from locations but both will work. The bonded came with shims, the riveted didn't.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

I thought I would add some info on the 17D8. I had order a car set and one box came in from Canada with riveted pads, the other from Mexico with bonded pads, same part numbers

Gary-------


17D8 is a Delco part number. Is there a GM "long number" on the boxes and is it the same on both? A Delco part number can remain the same while the GM part number changes because the Delco part number is application-specific while the GM part number is part-specific. For a change as great as the one you mention, there should be a change in GM part number unless things have really gone to hell.

Do both sets of pads have edge coding on them and is the edge coding the same?

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Gary,

I just received two sets that I bought thru Amazon. Both boxes say Assembled in Mexico, and all pads are bonded, not riveted.

Gary

Gary------


As you are aware, original pads were riveted. However, bonded is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, original J-56 pads were bonded. The J-56 pads were bonded with "through-the-backing plate" configuration. Are the Delco pads you received bonded in this manner?

[Gary R.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Joe
I'll take pictures of them tomorrow and post them here. If I am not mistaken the Delco# were the same. I have always used the riveted pads on my cars but I'm sure the bonded are ok for my application. These are just for stock for whenever I may need them.

[Gary B.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Gary-------


17D8 is a Delco part number. Is there a GM "long number" on the boxes and is it the same on both? A Delco part number can remain the same while the GM part number changes because the Delco part number is application-specific while the GM part number is part-specific. For a change as great as the one you mention, there should be a change in GM part number unless things have really gone to hell.

Do both sets of pads have edge coding on them and is the edge coding the same?

Joe,

Both boxes I just bought thru Amazon have the GM long # 18028641. All pad are bonded, not riveted.

Now that I look at the part # label I see that is also says "Non-Ferrous Ceramic" (in English, French, and Spanish). I thought I was buying organic, not ceramic.

Gary

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Joe,

Both boxes I just bought thru Amazon have the GM long # 18028641. All pad are bonded, not riveted.

Now that I look at the part # label I see that is also says "Non-Ferrous Ceramic" (in English, French, and Spanish). I thought I was buying organic, not ceramic.

Gary

Gary------

GM #18028641 is the original GM long number for the 17D8 pads. That should have changed when the pads changed but, apparently, it did not. The original 18028641 pads were organic. How that could change and the friction material affixation change without a change in GM long number astounds me. Looks like it's a "whole new world" out there. Part numbers don't mean what they used to mean.

I did some more checking. AC Delco and GM says that the 17D8/GM #18028641 are ORGANIC. If the box says that they are ceramic it's probably correct but that's not what GM and ACDelco says they are supposed to be. These pads are in what AC Delco calls their "Professional" parts line. "Professional" is one step below OEM. However, the 18028641 many years ago replaced the GM #1154122 which were OEM.

Also offered is a lower price point pad set under the "Advantage" product line (this product line is one step below "Professional"). These are AC Delco 14D8 aka GM #19286105. These are also specified as being organic.

[Gary R.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

well I took a look at just what I got in over the past 2 weeks. I saw this thread and figured I should get some of the good Delco pads before those are gone too.

The first order came in and they were from Canada these were the last in stock. A week later the 2nd order came in found the price went up, probably because of this thread, and they were from Mexico.

Here are the pictures. The bonded ones are ceramic so I'll be looking at returning them.

















These are from Canada

[Dick W.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Just noticed the pads Joe posted photos of are friction FE and the replacements are FF which indicates they have a higher coefficient of friction. A good thing.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Just noticed the pads Joe posted photos of are friction FE and the replacements are FF which indicates they have a higher coefficient of friction. A good thing.

Dick------


Ceramic pad material will usually have a higher coefficient of friction than organic.

[Joe L.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Gary-----


What is the edge coding on the Canadian manufactured pads?

I note that the bonded pads don't use "through-the-backing plate" configuration. I don't like that. But, they'll probably work fine.

[Gary R.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Gary-----


What is the edge coding on the Canadian manufactured pads?

I note that the bonded pads don't use "through-the-backing plate" configuration. I don't like that. But, they'll probably work fine.

No code on the pad but on the backing plate DEL709FF 07M5 267265

[Wayne M.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Gary------


As you are aware, original pads were riveted. However, bonded is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, original J-56 pads were bonded. The J-56 pads were bonded with "through-the-backing plate" configuration. Are the Delco pads you received bonded in this manner?

Per Chevrolet tech information bulletin dated 2/15/66, [and reprinted in Oct '93 Vette Vues] early '66 Corvettes up to (and I assume, by extension, all '65s except J61) had bonded pads, up to VIN 9343, on the fronts only. Riveted rears added by VIN 9688.

Here's the backside of the front J56's showing the "thru the backing plate" attachment method.

[Duke W.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Just noticed the pads Joe posted photos of are friction FE and the replacements are FF which indicates they have a higher coefficient of friction. A good thing.

The two letter code is established by the FMSI (Friction Materials Standards Institute) for cold and hot Cf respectively, and the higher the letter the higher the Cf. Most materials are FF, which indicates minimum fade at (moderately) high temperature, and I think the original asbestos based friction material for the C2 disk brake system was FF.

When my '88 MBZ 190E 2.6 was new brake performance was excellent, but the OE pads produced horrible black dust, squealed, wore rapidly, and were scoring the rotors in normal driving. Based on a tip I replaced them with Repco Deluxe pads, coded FF, which required somewhat higher pedal effort, but they were easy on the rotors, didn't squeal, and dust was minimal and light colored, so it was rarely noticeable. They also have a very low wear rate and should last well in excess of 50K miles of normal road driving for most applications.

These pads proved adequate a couple of years later when I ran the car at Firebird Raceway (Phoenix), a relatively slow track during the MBCA biennial Starfest event, but proved to be inadequate a couple of years later at the Willow Springs big 2.5 mile track... so were the spring, damper, and roll rates, so I never ran it on a track again, but I had two other cars to choose from that were competent on both long and short tracks.

A couple of years ago I replaced the pads with Deluxe Plus on the front, which have superior hot performance and are rated FG, and Deluxe on the rear rated FF. I recall G is the highest Cf range, on the order of 0.40-0.45, and each lower letter is less by 0.05.

Repco designed and built the C4 brake system, but I think they go by the name PBR, now. Given my excellent experience with these pads I think they would also work very well on a Corvette for normal road driving, so someone might want to give them a try.

BTW, all disk brake pad backing plates and drum shoe designs are assigned a number by FMSI, which refers to the geometry of the pad backing plate or shoe, but it says nothing about the friction material, which is rated by the two letter code. The C2 system is D8 (disk pad, eighth design), so you can see that this is a very early design, and I think most brands' part number often include whatever D-number is assigned to the various designs, The current highest D number is well over 300..

Duke

[Gary R.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Hi Wayne
No I didn't see any bonding through the backing plate. I returned them already, I don't want ceramic pads. I am curious why both were shipped under the same part number unless the Mexican pads are going to be the new revision of this part number?

[Leif A.]

Re: Brake pads revisited

Just ordered two sets of Delco 17D8 pads from Rock Auto. I'll picture them up when I get them.