Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it?

[Ted F.]

I am the 3rd owner of my '67. I am not sure how true all this is, but I am told the original engine was taken out right after delivery and put in a rail. It was a 427, 435 HP. The engine that was in the rail was suppose to have been put in this car. I was told it was from a 1966 vette. It is a 327, 350 HP. I am not sure. The number is 6104498 and it ran like this was true until 4 years ago.

I took it in to one of those so called vetter experts for some work and he played much more than he was asked to. When I picked it up and it has never been the same. I took it to another so called vette expert a dealer told me about and he spilled brake fluid on the fender and never could figure out the problem. I worked on it all last year and probably made it worse.

So now comes the question. I was thinking about putting a ZZ6 Deluxe engine in it. It is my understanding that this should fit right in and just use the old items that did not come with the new engine. I don't need the power steering, or air conditioner that comes with the turn-key model. It would be nice to have air and it turns like a tank, but that is another story.

I am surprised how little the dealers can tell me about this in Lansing. All they want to do is sell me whatever they currently have. By the way if anyone wants a ZZ 427/480 they have one for $8,000, still in the box.

So is this a good idea? If I want to have this installed, who can I trust? I have been burned twice and feel a little like I am in a dark hole.

Thank you in advance!



Ted

[Michael W.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Why not fix the existing engine? Describe the problem, perhaps someone here can help.

[Ted F.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

When I bought the car back in 1984 and drove it home from Ohio, I thought I might have really made a mistake. It was very jurky and would not run right. When I got it home several of us tried to figure it out with no luck. I took it to Jerry Reynolds, the best vette man I ever knew. He said with out knowing what was in the engine it would be hard to fix. He played with it for about 30 minutes and had it purring like a kitten. He said he still was not sure what was in it, but put the distributor in and out a few times and tuned it by ear. He said the normal timing mark was not even close. Don't ever touch the distributor! Jerry died few years back.

The person who worked on it 4 years ago took the distributor out and put it back in as the book calls for it. The car is back to where it was when I bought it in 1984, not drivable. I have taken the distributor in and out so many times I can't tell you how many any more.

I think the next thing would be to take the engine completely apart and see what is in it. Put it back together and see what happens. The timing belt might be off. We don't know which cam is in it. There is just to many questions. That is why I started thinking about putting the ZZ6 in it and getting it back on the road.

Oh yes, when I get that done I have to paint it, thanks to the 2nd vette guy. Got to love these thing and I do!

[Michael W.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Just noticed that this thread is in the wrong forum. Maybe a mod can move it.

Sounds like your engine problems revolve around ignition timing. Obviously more attempts to set it to factory specs will not solve the issue. It's not likely that if it once purred like a kitten the cam chain (there's no 'belt') had not jumped a tooth or two. If the guy at the time 'Jerry' said that the timing makr was way off it could be that timing tab on the cam chain cover is not correct.

This would be a simple thing for a competent mechanic to diagnose. I'd start there.

[Keith B.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Stay as fair away from so called Corvette only repair shops when it comes to simple mechanical problems. Locate a old time repair shop and have them look at. F

[Patrick H.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

You're in Lansing, MI?

Can you send me a note letting me what shops worked on your car? I'll see if I can find you someone who can figure it out. The MI Chapter has several members in your area.

We had a similar situation last year, and it turned out that the wrong harmonic balancer had been installed on the engine during a rebuild by an incompetent shop. The mark was waaaay off from where it should be, and we could never get it timed.

I would check that, or more commonly your timing tab shape and location.

Patrick

[Mark E.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Ted,

It's unfortunate you're having this trouble with your Corvette. It does seem that diagnosing the issues with the current engine could be the easiest and most economical path. Especially if it's something simple like a balancer.

If you do get a replacement engine though, check hood clearance. The intake and air cleaner on the ZZ6 look higher than stock.

I don't know your intentions/goals for the car, but since it's a 435hp car, a period correct big block tri-power may be an interesting choice. Probably more expensive than going ZZ6, but this may be at least partially offset by greater resale value.

[Edward B.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Regardless of the harmonic balancer that is installed or the possible misplacement of the timing tab, is it not a simple task to locate the position of "top dead center," mark the balancer accordingly relative to the tab and proceed from there using a degree wheel? If the distributor advance curve is still functioning as it was when the engine was running well, there are only so many degrees of initial advance or retard available to get the engine running properly once again. If the present advance cure displays something radical when installed on a distributor test machine,you may wish to install a known good distributor to get the engine running smoothly.

[Joe L.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

You're in Lansing, MI?

Can you send me a note letting me what shops worked on your car? I'll see if I can find you someone who can figure it out. The MI Chapter has several members in your area.

We had a similar situation last year, and it turned out that the wrong harmonic balancer had been installed on the engine during a rebuild by an incompetent shop. The mark was waaaay off from where it should be, and we could never get it timed.

I would check that, or more commonly your timing tab shape and location.

Patrick

Patrick------


Yes, if a 1969+ balancer is installed on a pre-1969 small block, the timing mark will be off by about 9 degrees. A balancer can be checked (when off the engine) by noting the relationship between the crank keyway slot and the timing mark on the outer ring. For 1955-68 balancers the two will approximately align; for 1969+ the two will be off-set.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Patrick------


Yes, if a 1969+ balancer is installed on a pre-1969 small block, the timing mark will be off by about 9 degrees. A balancer can be checked (when off the engine) by noting the relationship between the crank keyway slot and the timing mark on the outer ring. For 1955-68 balancers the two will approximately align; for 1969+ the two will be off-set.

It was a truck balancer. Per the owner, it's a lot more than 9 degrees off.

[Joe L.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

It was a truck balancer. Per the owner, it's a lot more than 9 degrees off.

Patrick------


Truck should follow the same pattern as passenger car if we're talking about a small block.

[Darryl D.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

My guess would be that the mechanic that had it timed correctly years ago likely timed it by vacuum. You set the timing to 1" below maximum vacuum. Just bring it to max vacuum and then back it off 1".

[Ted F.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Patrick,

You are a jewel!

The guy who really screwed it up was Sheridan Road Automotive, in Lansing. He was referred to me by a part shop I use.

The second guy was Bellkey Automotive Service, in Eaton Rapids. He was referred to me by a dealer friend. However, all he did was spill something on the hood, fender and interior that discolored it.

I would really appreciate a good referral. My trust level is almost nonexistent anymore. Thank you!

Also, once I get the engine running again, I will need a paint job. So any referrals would be appreciated. I will probably be replacing the left from fender and hood at that time.

Thank you! I almost feel like I am drowning here.

Ted Feight

You're in Lansing, MI?

Can you send me a note letting me what shops worked on your car? I'll see if I can find you someone who can figure it out. The MI Chapter has several members in your area.

We had a similar situation last year, and it turned out that the wrong harmonic balancer had been installed on the engine during a rebuild by an incompetent shop. The mark was waaaay off from where it should be, and we could never get it timed.

I would check that, or more commonly your timing tab shape and location.

Patrick

[Ted F.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

Mark Edmondson,

I agree that a 435 tri-power would be the best fix, but I have no idea where to even start looking for one.

I have thought about having an complete off frame restoration done and having them get me the 435, but them I would just take it out to Phoenix and sell it. I am not sure I am ready for that right now.

I also looked at the ZZ427/480. A local dealer has one he would sell me for $8,000. It cost him $10,000. Yes, the oil pan would have to be changed and I would need a new hood. I am going to do the new hood anyway. Still for now I would just like to get it running right, paint it and play with it.

Thank you!

Ted

[Mark E.]

Re: Which engine to use to replace current engine in my 1967, with wrong engine in it

If you use an intake/carb set-up from an L-68 tri-power, a ZZ427 or ZZ502 should fit under a stock BB hood. Those engines have oval port heads, so the L-68 set-up should be OK, but maybe someone who has researched this can chime in.

Other oval port options which should fit under a stock BB hood are an intake/carb from a '66 L-36 (single Holley), '68-'69 L-36 aluminum intake with Q-Jet, '70-'72 454 iron intake with Q-Jet. The first would look more original to the casual eye.

I believe Chevy performance also offers big-block engines with large (rectangular) port heads. Those should fit under the hood with an L-71 setup.