Re: melting power wire.
Here are photos asked for
Here are photos asked for
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Re: melting power wire.
As Rich suggested, your third picture shows the Black ground wire connected to the Bat terminal. That black wire should be under the self tapping screw that mounts the horn relay to the core support. Here's a picture of my 66 horn relay. As you can see, hooking the black ground to the terminal you did connects it directly to the same terminal that the battery + is connected to and thus the short.
DonDon Harris
Current: 67 convertible Marina Blue L79
Former: 60 Red/Red, 2x4, 245hp (Regional and National Top Flight 2013), 66 coupe Nassau Blue, L79 (Chapter and Regional Top Flight 2017)Comment
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Re: melting power wire.
Dick, On the midyears Black is Bat+, Brown is Bat-.
Joe, Can you take another pic of the LL Wiring Diagram. I wanted to see the Horn Relay wiring connections to show if they depict the Black wire error or not. Also, when did you get that Diagram? If recent, and it shows that error, you will do them a service to inform them and stop shipping them immediately. Also you may want to check in with them regarding a good faith gesture to spring you a new harness. Couldn't hurt to try.
Your Relay picture confirms the unfortunate miswire. That Black wire is the Ground wire. This caused the dead short to the Red wire which comes from Bat+.
I always use a toothed washer under the Ground wire terminal lug for best mechanical connection. When you get your new harness installed don't overtighten the screw as it can strip the sheetmetal.
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Re: melting power wire.
I just went to the LL website. Their Diagram appears to be wrong and a repeat of the factory diagram error. It looks like it shows the Black ground wire going to the BAT+ Buss Bar.
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Re: melting power wire.
Don't have it in front of me, or am I in the shop. But I had the same problem and instantly found it before damage. Not saying same as yours exactly, but at the starter I remember grounding a black wire that was supposed to go to the positive post on the solonoid. I had 2 black wires and grounded both. If I remember there were 2, one to the wiper motor and fan and one to the positive. Black never go's to pos, but in the boo, this one did. For some reason one of the black wires went to the pos post on the solonoid. I traced it to the voltage regulator.
The give away was the terminal size. They were replaced and I thought someone, or myself used a larger terminal back in 1971.
Yes, the harness is bad but if you strip the tape off (ONLY FOR TEST PURPOSES) you can insulate the wires till you get it right, then change the harness.
DomComment
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Re: melting power wire.
I have now changed wire and have repositioned ground wires for both starter and horn relay for my 66 vette with 427 factory air. I now want to test. I have a power probe 3 and what I thought of doing is no hookoing battery to car but to the power probe clips and the the alligator to a ground and touch probe to positive main cable to check for continuity. power probe has circuit breaker if I then apply power and still have a short. any thoughts would be appreciatedComment
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Re: melting power wire.
Joe, What is a power probe 3? Is it a self-powered test-light or standard? Standard only uses a bulb and requires a external power source and ground.
You cannot use a non-powered test-light for that test. A standard test-light needs a power source and ground so if the battery is not connected to the electrical system the test-light will not function. A powered test-light may or may not be a valid indicator either.
A ohm meter could be used between Power and Ground but the the reading could be confusing if there is no direct short. A dead short would be near zero ohms. If the meter reading is high ohms it may be a indicator you're good.
I would then connect power to the car via a jumper wire with a 10 or 15 Amp fuse from BAT+ to the BAT+ cable. If the fuse survives when you connect the fused jumper, then it will tell you that you do not have a direct short in the wiring. You could test other basic functions too but not to exceed the test fuse rating.
RichComment
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Re: melting power wire.
Hi Rich
what I did was
1 did not hook battery to car
hooked battery + and- to battery connections on powerprobe
hooked another clip to engine.
power probe has continuity light when touched to the positive battery lead .then flipping a rocker switch gives juice from battery
when I did that I was able to record
13 volts from battery
12.5 volts to the positive terminal
when I juiced the system I got
all interior lights to work
radio work
clock work
antenna work
rear and front lights work
I could hear windshield wiper click but arms did not move
horn did not work
light motors did not work
heater fan did not work
then I turned on the ignition
there was a voltage drain, starter did not click or turn engine and the power probe circuit breaker fired off and power stopped.
this starter turned engine on test stand so I think it is ok
I did not check fuses yet
but I must still have a starter shortComment
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Re: melting power wire.
search you tube for power probe and you will see itComment
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Re: melting power wire.
Joe I did a search of your Power Probe III and now see the specs.
There is no way it will supply enough current for the starter solenoid. That is why the 8 AMP circuit breaker opened when you tried to crank. See page 13. IIRC a solenoid needs around 15-20 amps.
All of your other tests tells me your wiring appears properly connected. However, you may be missing the Black ground to the wiper motor if you hear clicking and no arm movement. Check that the Black wire Plastic housed spade terminal is connected to the wiper motor terminal lug.
One other potential issue..... Your photo shows 2 Black grounds to the starter mount bolt. There should only be one, for the heater fan & wiper motor ground just mentioned. You may have the 18G Black wire for the BATTERY meter there. Your BATTERY gauge will peg in one direction if wired that way. It won't cause a Power to ground short, just a miswire to the meter Source terminal. That Black(18G) wire should go to BAT+ on the solenoid. It is the Source wire for the meter. The Sense wire is the Blk/Wht at the meter, which comes from the Horn Relay Buss bar.
Panel fuses are not involved in the Starter or Ignition circuit. I can't see the wiring colors in your other photo.
RichComment
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Re: melting power wire.
Joe , check my 67 horn relay wire connection it may help youComment
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Re: melting power wire.
there should be a ground wire to ground the relay on the right side of relay just like the diagram shows and photo i postedComment
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Re: melting power wire.
I want to sincerely thank everyone's help. Danny why is the way your 67 is wired not a direct short red is power and black is ground and the are screwed to the same plate? that is what is described by rich above.?
rich here is the key to the wires in the labeled picture
1 - black lead I think from blower
2 - a black and red dual wire
3 - a black lead , shorter than 1 so I think it from. the main harness
4 - a red lead
5 - main + directly from battery
according to wiring diagram
1 goes to starting motor ground
2 red-black black goes to ammeter, 10 red goes to horn relay
3 black lead by wiring diagram goes nowhere. it is a 14 b and goes from solid to dashed and then a squiggled line nowhere is it redundant?
4 red lead again is ir redundant from main harness ?
5 black from battery
I really wish there was an expert near Pittsburgh that could come over and help me. I saw that then team leader for the 1967 is from PittsburghComment
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Re: melting power wire.
this is wiring diagram - air con
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Re: melting power wire.
Danny's photo is a '67, very different wiring. That Black wire is a Fusible Link. It terminates at the Relay +12V Buss bar with a U-shaped terminal to fit under the slotted screw. Follow it to where the bullet is and you will see the Red wire it connects to. That fusible link black-to-red goes to the bulkhead connector & fuse panel to power the car. The '66 does NOT use fusible links.
You cannot see the Black ground to the horn relay mount bolt in his photo. This would be lower left underneath. But you already fixed that as this was your dead short initially.
On the '66 starter solenoid, the dual Red and Black are tied together(your picture #2) as the black goes to the BATTERY gauge. Red is Main power.
I looked at the AC wiring diagram in my 1967 AIM. #3 black wire in your photo is part of the AC harness and is ground. I now see why you have 2 Black wires on the starter mount bolt. This is the dashed line to a (ground symbol/squigily line) in the schematic. Follow the other 14B wires and they go to grounds.
The #4 Red wire in your photo is the AC main 12V(12R) feed wire which connects to Solenoid +12v(EDIT: OR SHOULD IT GO TO HORN RELAY BUSS BAR) and is fused in the engine bay. I don't think it is a redundant wire in the Main harness.
Yes I would suggest you get some local expert to help you to reduce further issues.
RichComment
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