Control arm bushings (again)

[Gary S.]

A search here turns up a lot of useful information (including my similar question last year) about upper and lower control arm bushings for the C3. I see Moog, Napa and the usual vendors besides the potentially available GM numbers that Joe L provided. I have a brand new edition of the 1970-72 TIM&JG coming in the mail. While I await that manual, my question is - are any of the aforementioned control arm bushings better in the judging field that any other? I recognize that my lightly driven car's new bushings will probably outlive me and I wont be going to polyurethane - thus the question. And a similar question on ball joints, does one judge better than another?

I full intend to do my CAs in the next week or two and I may even take them up to Bairs, less than 100 miles from me, for riveted ball joints. I will inspect them shortly after removal of the CAs. My old manuals do not really address point loss on a riveted versus ball joint and I haven't been on the judging field in well more than 10 years.

Gary

[Patrick H.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Gary,

There are correct-appearing bushings available from some of the catalog vendors. There is a difference in appearance of the protrusion of the rubber between OTC bushings and correct reproduction ones.

If you're having the arms done, there's no reason not to rivet them.
In addition, there are reproduction ball joints that are more correct than the OTC ones at the parts store.

So, I would check if Bair's has the correct parts, or order them ahead of time if needed for them to install.

[Gary S.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Gary,

There are correct-appearing bushings available from some of the catalog vendors. There is a difference in appearance of the protrusion of the rubber between OTC bushings and correct reproduction ones.

If you're having the arms done, there's no reason not to rivet them.
In addition, there are reproduction ball joints that are more correct than the OTC ones at the parts store.

So, I would check if Bair's has the correct parts, or order them ahead of time if needed for them to install.

Patrick,
Thank you for the response. I do recognize that some bushings are better than others in appearance, thus the original question. Kind of a lazy man's way of asking if anyone has done the homework and knows the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I may have poorly worded the original response but I intent to do all of the CA work myself unless I farm out the rivets to Bairs after cleaning, sand blasting and painting, of course. I will be calling Bairs for advice on which components they like but I have no knowledge of their work as far as NCRS "correctness" goes.

So, has anyone used vendors bushings and/or ball joints and had them judged well? As I mentioned, my new TIM&JG should be here in a couple of days and I will turn to it for some input.

Thank you as always,

Gary

[Patrick H.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

I believe that America's Finest does or did make the bushings and definitely the ball joints.
However, you may be able to get a better price through someone else.

[Ron G.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Just an FYI - Brainard rivet company in Gerard Ohio supplied the original rivets for St. Louis for the upper and lower ball joints. The upper ball joints got inserted from the bottom and they were pressed from the top which results in a mushroom type head. The lower ball joints go in from the outside and they get pressed from the inside. They also have a mushroom type head, but larger than the uppers.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

OK, so I was thinking about this again for you Gary as I tried to get to sleep last night.

My thoughts, since I've seen your car and know a little about it...

1. Odds are that with your miles your upper ball joints are in very good condition. When/if you disassemble, if they are stiff then I'd leave them alone.

2. I'd say there is a 50% chance that your lower ball joints are in good condition. You can test them on the car (I think it's in the CSM) or evaluate once disassembled.

3. Given the above, since you seem bound and determined to replace the bushings I would consider replacing only the bushings, and reassembling the suspension. I don't think that you will gain anything putting in new upper ball joints, and might not gain anything with the lowers. Again, you will have to evaluate those once you get it apart. No joints, no paint, no nothing. Bushings and back together. At least, if it was my car that's what I would look at.

4. Be sure to use the proper tools to disassemble your suspension (i.e. not pickle forks) so that you don't ruin the rubber boots on anything.

I hope that helps.

[Joe L.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

OK, so I was thinking about this again for you Gary as I tried to get to sleep last night.

My thoughts, since I've seen your car and know a little about it...

1. Odds are that with your miles your upper ball joints are in very good condition. When/if you disassemble, if they are stiff then I'd leave them alone.

2. I'd say there is a 50% chance that your lower ball joints are in good condition. You can test them on the car (I think it's in the CSM) or evaluate once disassembled.

3. Given the above, since you seem bound and determined to replace the bushings I would consider replacing only the bushings, and reassembling the suspension. I don't think that you will gain anything putting in new upper ball joints, and might not gain anything with the lowers. Again, you will have to evaluate those once you get it apart. No joints, no paint, no nothing. Bushings and back together. At least, if it was my car that's what I would look at.

4. Be sure to use the proper tools to disassemble your suspension (i.e. not pickle forks) so that you don't ruin the rubber boots on anything.

I hope that helps.

Patrick and Gary------


I agree. It's very unlikely that the upper ball joints require replacement. The lowers may or may not. However, it's kind of difficult to assess their condition.

DO NOT use a pickle fork to separate the ball joints from the spindle. You WILL damage the boots and the original boots are essentially impossible to replace.

Replacing the bushings is not as easy as it might seem. Special tools are necessary to do the job right and you are unlikely to have access to them. To some extent the tools can be fabricated. Study the procedure in your Chevrolet Service Manual.

By the way, original upper bushings for 1963-72 Corvettes were made by a company by the name of "Harris" and this is usually found embossed on the rubber of the bushing (cannot be seen once installed). 1973-82 (and 1963-72 SERVICE) were made by "Clevite" and this can be seen embossed on the bushing rubber.

All 1963-82 lower bushings were made by "Harris".

[Gary S.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Patrick and Joe,
I appreciate the comments and the advice. Following a search here, I have read extensively the information that others have provided. Yes, it seems that special tools are necessary for CA bushing replacement but others have easily and inexpensively fabricated them. It certainly seems that this is not as daunting as initial reading suggests provided that the CSM is followed as well as using the advice here.

The same search suggested that upper ball joints, as you both offered, take the least amount of wear and may be fine. Whereas the lowers may not be. My first order of business is to take a look at them and evaluate them for proper function. I don't have an absolute need to replace the bushings but they are quite nasty looking and none of the original markings still show because of the cracking and oxidized nature of the visible portion. Here is my original post from last year https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...er+%2821316%29 - See post 11 for the photos.

As some of you suggested last year, a pry bar may or may not be sufficient to test the bushings. While I recognize that a car or part is only original once, the question needs to be asked - do I take the hit for condition (no one thinks my bushings condition is nice looking ) or for reproduction/aftermarket appearance. Given that, I am going to look long and hard at these parts once I take my car out of hibernation. I need to evaluate the ride and see if there is any appreciable deterioration in the ride that can be attributed to bushings. There certainly isn't any rattling or other noises suggesting that the bushings are bad but they have looked like that when I bought the car 17 or 18 years ago. It could be that I am used to ride and assume that it is normal. Some more reading needed here to determine this. I am not "bound and determined" to replace them but I am determined to properly evaluate them.

Thanks again,

Gary

[Joe L.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Patrick and Joe,
I appreciate the comments and the advice. Following a search here, I have read extensively the information that others have provided. Yes, it seems that special tools are necessary for CA bushing replacement but others have easily and inexpensively fabricated them. It certainly seems that this is not as daunting as initial reading suggests provided that the CSM is followed as well as using the advice here.

The same search suggested that upper ball joints, as you both offered, take the least amount of wear and may be fine. Whereas the lowers may not be. My first order of business is to take a look at them and evaluate them for proper function. I don't have an absolute need to replace the bushings but they are quite nasty looking and none of the original markings still show because of the cracking and oxidized nature of the visible portion. Here is my original post from last year https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...er+%2821316%29 - See post 11 for the photos.

As some of you suggested last year, a pry bar may or may not be sufficient to test the bushings. While I recognize that a car or part is only original once, the question needs to be asked - do I take the hit for condition (no one thinks my bushings condition is nice looking ) or for reproduction/aftermarket appearance. Given that, I am going to look long and hard at these parts once I take my car out of hibernation. I need to evaluate the ride and see if there is any appreciable deterioration in the ride that can be attributed to bushings. There certainly isn't any rattling or other noises suggesting that the bushings are bad but they have looked like that when I bought the car 17 or 18 years ago. It could be that I am used to ride and assume that it is normal. Some more reading needed here to determine this. I am not "bound and determined" to replace them but I am determined to properly evaluate them.

Thanks again,

Gary

Gary------


Keep this in mind: the external (i.e. visible) rubber of the bushings provides absolutely no functionality. However, it MAY be an indication of the condition of the internal and highly functional portion of the bushings.

One thing you can do: remove the retainers (convex "washers") from the bushings and inspect the condition of the then-exposed rubber of the bushings. If it's deteriorated, then you definitely need to replace the bushings. If it's not apparently deteriorated, you may or may not need to replace the bushings.

[Gary S.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Joe,
I was aware that the external part of the bushing is non-functional. Someone replied with that information in the original post from last year. I do intend to fully inspect and evaluate before I tear into a "remove & replace" operation.

Thank you,

[Bill L.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Gary,

If the bushings do need to be replaced, Older and discontinued Moog replacements come up on eBay and except for the Harris , Clevite or part number that cannot be seen once installed, they are identical to the originals with the rubber protruding. If you can find a set they will cost a fraction of NOS and I believe the MOOG quality is far superior to current reproductions.

Kind Regards,


Bill

[Dick W.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Normally the right lower ball joint goes first. If any/all the ball joints are tight, just clean and leave them alone.

[Gary S.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Dick and Bill,

Good advice. Thank you.

Gary

[Ron G.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Bill,

You may be aware of it, but reproductions rubber bushings have the rubber itself for touring much more pronounced than the originals, but for the difference in price and for what you will lose your points if any and maybe worth it to go down the Avenue of reproduction.

[Gary S.]

Re: Control arm bushings (again)

Ron,

Thank you.

I am checking catalogs and making phone calls on the best bushings. I still haven't pulled my car out of hibernation due to the latest really cold weather and snow flurries.

Gary