MSO process--how did that take place?

[Mike E.]

I am dealing with a 71 that was sold new in Maryland. The vehicle trim plate has H19 (March 19, a Friday), so the car likely did not roll off the line until Monday the 22nd. The MSO indicates that the "property" (vehicle) ownership was transferred to the Maryland dealer on March 24.
My question is this: at what point was the MSO issued? The day the car rolled off the line? When it was cleared to be shipped?
I assuming that the MSO was then mailed to the dealer?
The first assignment of the title to the original owner was then executed on April 2.
I found nothing applicable to these questions on my internet searching.
BTW, the shipping weight was listed as 3285 and the SAE horsepower as 57.8. That certainly helps document what the car was. How do you translate that 57.8 on the MSO to gross horsepower as advertised by GM in 1971?
And per the MSO, it was 8 cylinders--all the better!

[Duke W.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

The 57.8 is what is called "taxable horsepower". Off the top of my head I don't recall the formula, but it's based on the square of the bore and the number of cylinders. It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine's actual power output. So all 350s are 57.8 regardless of brake horsepower rating. The formula is listed in the AMA/MVSA specs.

It dates from the days that vehicle license fees/taxes were based on the square of the bore and number of cylinders. This was and maybe still is common in Europe, which is why early European engines had much longer strokes than bores. It may have also been used by some states in the USA, but I don't think any use it today.

I believe you are correct that the MSO was mailed to the dealer probably with the invoice, and the dealer was required to surrender the MSO to the registration authorities to register the car to the first owner. Nowadays I expect this is all done over the Web with digital files. It's an interesting document, which few have, but if you buy a new car ask the dealer for a copy.

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

The 57.8 is what is called "taxable horsepower". Off the top of my head I don't recall the formula, but it's based on the square of the bore and the number of cylinders. It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine's actual power output. So all 350s are 57.8 regardless of brake horsepower rating. The formula is listed in the AMA/MVSA specs.

It dates from the days that vehicle license fees/taxes were based on the square of the bore and number of cylinders. This was and maybe still is common in Europe, which is why early European engines had much longer strokes than bores. It may have also been used by some states in the USA, but I don't think any use it today.

I believe you are correct that the MSO was mailed to the dealer probably with the invoice, and the dealer was required to surrender the MSO to the registration authorities to register the car to the first owner. Nowadays I expect this is all done over the Web with digital files. It's an interesting document, which few have, but if you buy a new car ask the dealer for a copy.

Duke

MSO is still a paper document. Most states/no states? will recognize a digital document such as this

[Mark L.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

Mike, as you know we can provide the exact date the vehicle was considered completed. I believe this date was important for the bean counters and for the GM inventory management folks. It probably also triggered the creation of the MSO.

[Mike E.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

Thanks, Duke. 57.8 is actually the taxable hp for a 454—-51.2 is for a 350. I finally found that formula via the sae website, which is bore times bore times number of cylinders divided by 2.5. So it doesn’t tell me anything about the horsepower (which I do know from other documentation) but it does affirm the displacement.

[Duke W.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

A completed vehicle driven out to the shipping lot generated the dealer invoice, which meant the wholesale price could be claimed as revenue for accounting purposes. That was really important to plant managers as making their monthly and quarterly revenue numbers was their number one job. The vehicle plants were GM's primary source of revenue.

Duke

[Terry M.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

The 57.8 is what is called "taxable horsepower". Off the top of my head I don't recall the formula, but it's based on the square of the bore and the number of cylinders. It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine's actual power output. So all 350s are 57.8 regardless of brake horsepower rating. The formula is listed in the AMA/MVSA specs.

It dates from the days that vehicle license fees/taxes were based on the square of the bore and number of cylinders. This was and maybe still is common in Europe, which is why early European engines had much longer strokes than bores. It may have also been used by some states in the USA, but I don't think any use it today.

I believe you are correct that the MSO was mailed to the dealer probably with the invoice, and the dealer was required to surrender the MSO to the registration authorities to register the car to the first owner. Nowadays I expect this is all done over the Web with digital files. It's an interesting document, which few have, but if you buy a new car ask the dealer for a copy.

Duke

When I took Museum Delivery of my 2008 I got the MSO in my hand. I did have to give it up to get the "tags" but not before I made a copy of it. I am not sure if that was supposed to happen, but I didn't say: "no." Because I took delivery of the car in Kentucky the dealer in Indiana never saw the car. All he wanted was the money. I wish I had the MSO for the 1970, but back then I am not sure I knew such documents existed and I sure a the dickens didn't care.

[Michael F.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

do the new cars come with mso?

[Rich G.]

Re: MSO process--how did that take place?

do the new cars come with mso?

Yes, but you won’t see it usually. If you have the dealer get the tags or transfer the tags they give the MSO to DMV in that process. In NY it must be a paper original. They can give you a copy if you ask and sometimes if you don’t. I have had it both ways.

A couple of years ago we bought a new Volvo wagon from a dealer who had several dealerships. All MSO processing went through one “ long time, trusted employee”. This person had a melt down one day, threw away the paperwork for about 100 new cars and rode off into the sunset. New, original MSO had to be issued. In our case it came from Volvo USA. Took over six weeks to unwind the mess.

Rich