Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

[Harris B.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

Hello everyone. More on the saga of my water temperature gauge and potential overheating issue. After further tests, even at idle now, the temperature gauge starts climbing close to the red zone and turning on the heater gets it back to normal (at least according to the gauge). When cold, I removed the radiator cap and then cranked the engine. After arriving at operating temperature (at least according to the gauge) I found that there was a drop in radiator fluid level followed by an increase in radiator fluid level (this went back and forth which suggests to me that the water pump is working). When the fluid dropped, I could easily see the top few layers of the radiator pipes. Those pipes appeared to me to have a substantial amount of scale build up (with the passages almost completely closed with scale build up). I am still convinced this scale build up was due to years of sitting in storage. The improvement when heater was turned on and the significant scaling convinced me that the problem was with the radiator, not the gauge. So, I embarked on removal of the radiator.

I was able to remove the radiator but not without a lot of effort and difficulty. The most difficult part was my inability to remove the upper and lower transmission cooling pipes. I had to remove the rubber pipes instead. Very difficult in such a tight place. Attached are four pictures.

The first is with the radiator right after I got it out of the car.

The second is a close up of the tag. I am not sure what the "FF" means or the 3053119 mean. My guess is the FF is the style radiator for this particular Corvette and the 3053119 is probably the part number. You can also see the significant corrosion on the lower transmission cooling pipe. I tried to remove the upper and lower pipes after I removed the radiator (even with a soaking of penetrating fluid for several hours) but they would not budge.

The third is my best effort to take a picture of the pipes inside the radiator with the scale build up.

The fourth is what it looks like with the radiator removed. After vacuuming out the dead bugs you can see the lower radiator pads, the auxiliary fan mounted in the fan shroud, and the fresh air duct solenoid mounted on the underneath of the hood.

I hope my local radiator shop can tank, "rod out," clean up, and paint this radiator and they can remove those corroded transmission cooling pipes. I prefer not to have to buy a new one if at all possible. However, I am not optimistic. The scaling just looks too bad to me but my fingers are crossed.

OK, now for a couple of questions. Now that I have the radiator out, should I go ahead and replace the upper and lower water hoses? Honestly, my existing hoses look fine to me - but what do I know. I know I have more room now so should I replace the water pump? I hesitate to do that (particularly if I have to spend the money on a new radiator). If I later find the water pump needs to be replaced, I think the water pump can be removed with the radiator installed (but probably easier with the radiator out). Please share with me your thoughts on whether to replace the hoses and the water pump and any other thoughts or suggestions you might have.

[Terry M.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

The second is a close up of the tag. I am not sure what the "FF" means or the 3053119 mean. My guess is the FF is the style radiator for this particular Corvette and the 3053119 is probably the part number.

OK, now for a couple of questions. Now that I have the radiator out, should I go ahead and replace the upper and lower water hoses? Honestly, my existing hoses look fine to me - but what do I know. I know I have more room now so should I replace the water pump? I hesitate to do that (particularly if I have to spend the money on a new radiator). If I later find the water pump needs to be replaced, I think the water pump can be removed with the radiator installed (but probably easier with the radiator out). Please share with me your thoughts on whether to replace the hoses and the water pump and any other thoughts or suggestions you might have.

Harris

You are right about the tag with FF on it. I suggest you remove it before taking the radiator to the shop. Radiator shops don't care about such tags, we do. It is not soldered to the tank, but just clips on.

The answers to your hose and water pump questions depend on your desired use of the car.

It sounds like the car is pretty original with low miles. If that is the case it might be worth putting it into our judging system, and even going for the McLellan Award. A description of the awards (page down):

https://www.ncrs.org/services/judging-awards.php

If you are going for any of those awards leave the hoses and water pump alone.

If your decision is to make your car a driver:
Change the hoses and water pump, but keep the originals. You will never be able to get those originals back if they leave your possession. Also keep the original hose clamps. When judged we like to see those kinds of things. Those parts are part of the history of the car and should stay with it. Remember we are only custodians of these cars. Others will become custodians in the future. It is our responsibility to preserve them as best we can.

[Mark E.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

OK, now for a couple of questions. Now that I have the radiator out, should I go ahead and replace the upper and lower water hoses? Honestly, my existing hoses look fine to me - but what do I know. I know I have more room now so should I replace the water pump? I hesitate to do that (particularly if I have to spend the money on a new radiator). If I later find the water pump needs to be replaced, I think the water pump can be removed with the radiator installed (but probably easier with the radiator out). Please share with me your thoughts on whether to replace the hoses and the water pump and any other thoughts or suggestions you might have.

Given your description of its condition, I strongly suggest recoring the radiator. A new, modern core will cool much, much better and last longer than a rodded out old core. When rodding, if a tube can't be unplugged or if it's leaking, it's soldered closed. This results in diminished cooling. Original tanks and header with the accompanying tag and identifying information can be retained so it will look original to a judge (if that's important to you).

For reliability, replace all hoses if you don't know their age. That's basic car maintenance. As Terry suggests, you can keep the old stuff if you think it might be original.

If you don't know the age of the water pump, replace/rebuild it also. It can be replaced later with the radiator installed, but along with replacing rubber parts, this improves reliability and reduces the chance of sudden coolant loss. (It's shocking how little time it takes to dump coolant and overheat an engine.) Quality replacement water pumps are cheap. Is the water pump housing original? Then rebuild it or add it to your original parts collection.

EDIT: The above approach is if you want a reliable car. You'll follow a different preservation strategy if this is a bowtie trailer queen with 35 year old tires, hoses and brake/fuel lines.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

Given your description of its condition, I strongly suggest recoring the radiator.

If you recore it, the upper and lower support bars are different than replacements. Have the shop use your originals.
The local shop has done this for me, and it works well.

The last one I had done, I still sanded it and repainted it myself using Eastwood's radiator paint. Radiator shops aren't as careful or thorough as we are.

[Terry M.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

The last one I had done, I still sanded it and repainted it myself using Eastwood's radiator paint. Radiator shops aren't as careful or thorough as we are.

And neither was Harrison.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

And neither was Harrison.

True. But, I had to make it perfect, at least with respect to the end tanks and cross bars.
Looks great now.

[Harris B.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

I took the radiator to my local radiator shop (in business for over 50 years - one of the last surviving radiator shops here in Jacksonville, Florida). The shop owner identified potential sources of leaks and warned that "rodding out" the tubes could cause the core to weaken and may result in more leaks (consistent with Mark's comments above). Nevertheless, the shop owner told me he would give it his best shot. I asked the shop owner to keep the "FF" tag and he said he would. Reflecting on Terry's post above, I wish I had taken that tag off before I left the shop. As Terry mentioned, this tag is only clipped on. I fear the "tag, what tag?" comment when I pick up the radiator. We will see.

I do plan to drive the car, primarily on weekends. It will not be kept in storage or transported by trailer. I want to drive it to NCRS events and just enjoy it but I do want to keep it as original as possible and I am keeping all parts that have to be replaced. I also have a budget. So, for these reasons, I am going to keep the existing radiator hoses in place (I am fairly certain they are original) and I am going to keep the water pump in place. Yes, it appears to be the original as the paint evenly matches the rest of the engine and the external appearance (paint, plating of parts, etc.) of the engine is in great condition (but not too great as it does have a bit of patina on it so I feel certain it was not removed, rebuilt, and repainted).

[Mark E.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

I fear driving a 35 year old car with original hoses (belts too?) and patched up radiator is false economy.

I understand having a limited budget, but what's the cost of towing the car home because the coolant dumped? Or worse, the cost of replacing a heat damaged engine? At best, it won't leak but will struggle in warm weather.

[Dick W.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

I took the radiator to my local radiator shop (in business for over 50 years - one of the last surviving radiator shops here in Jacksonville, Florida). The shop owner identified potential sources of leaks and warned that "rodding out" the tubes could cause the core to weaken and may result in more leaks (consistent with Mark's comments above). Nevertheless, the shop owner told me he would give it his best shot. I asked the shop owner to keep the "FF" tag and he said he would. Reflecting on Terry's post above, I wish I had taken that tag off before I left the shop. As Terry mentioned, this tag is only clipped on. I fear the "tag, what tag?" comment when I pick up the radiator. We will see.

I do plan to drive the car, primarily on weekends. It will not be kept in storage or transported by trailer. I want to drive it to NCRS events and just enjoy it but I do want to keep it as original as possible and I am keeping all parts that have to be replaced. I also have a budget. So, for these reasons, I am going to keep the existing radiator hoses in place (I am fairly certain they are original) and I am going to keep the water pump in place. Yes, it appears to be the original as the paint evenly matches the rest of the engine and the external appearance (paint, plating of parts, etc.) of the engine is in great condition (but not too great as it does have a bit of patina on it so I feel certain it was not removed, rebuilt, and repainted).

In the years I owned a radiator shop there were VERY FEW radiators that needed rodding. Once comes to mind in one that the owner always added water from the creek and a second had had six tubes of radiator stop leak added. He thought the radiator was leaking but it was the head gasket.

[Richard G.]

Re: Update - Newbie question on 1982 radiator and temperature

Sounds like you are looking to keep the car original as possible within the limits of reliability.
I would defiantly replace both hoses. Getting the old hoses to reseal will be difficult and the rubber has a finite life. Use you originals as a guide to get the best reproductions out there or you may find originals on eBay, especially if you don't get in a hurry. Get the water pump rebuilt using your original core. Go with the re-core on the radiator like Dick suggested. You now know what a pain this is to remove the radiator and don't do it twice. I always take pictures of everything before I drop it off. (Hard learnt lesson) That way you can get the tag back in the exact location etc. Best of Luck.
Rick