Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

[William B.]

In replacing a mechanical regulator with solid state regulator in say a 67 vette, I believe the solid state regulator is detectable if you watch the ammeter/voltage dash meter, the reaction is different with the solid state and would fail ops or pv? can someone comment on my thoughts.

[Jim D.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

It's definitely detectable. Whether the person doing the judging is informed on the differences, or even cares, who knows?

[Gene M.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

In the spirit of what a PV is for one should not be substitution modern electronics for the original configuration. Today essentially anything with a wire or electrical connection could be replaced with modern technology replacement. But that is not what NCRS and restoration is all about. The intent is to RESTORE the original configuration so it functions and appears as original.

My understanding is any reconfigurations that do not reflect the original is cause for a line item fail on the PV which constitutes a PV fail.

[William B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

I understand it is not correct to install modern electronics in judged cars. not my question, I am looking for a definite way to determine if the cars regulator has been modified.
I am thinking an easy way would be to use the turn signal and watch the reaction on the voltmeter/ammeter?

[Keith B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

If your goal is PV why would you think about using thing but the original style

[William B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Keith, please read the question. I wanted to assure myself that watching the voltmeter bounce was the best way to determine if it had an original regulator.

[Donald H.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

I understand your questions and will ad my two cents, worth what you pay for.

Before I restored my 66, I ran with one of the 'made in Mexico' solid state VR. There are at least three of these branded, but from what I have seen, I think they all may be made by Standard Motor Products. One of them is the Duralast VR715.

After I restored the 66 and prepared it for Flight Judging, I used a date correct original VR.

There is a difference in the performance as noticed at the dash battery meter. The way I would describe it is the solid state VR generally produces a steady needle movement at the dash meter. While running, if you apply a load (switch on the lights), you get a smooth deflection of the meter needle. With the original, the needle deflects but my experience is that it has what I would describe a flutter.

Now as to judging, I used an original VR, but a fellow I know used one that had been modified to solid state in original housing. He had no operations judging issues at a Chapter and Regional meet. As I understand, for Flight Judging, the operations part is more to assure that everything actually works, and not necessarily that it functions exactly as originally designed.

I've never been through a PV, but I would tend to think that the team leader conducting the PV would be more likely to evaluate the functionality of the VR and battery meter and more likely to question the originality.

Another, even more difficult to discover, is the single wire points eliminator. I had original points ignition on my 66, but on my 67 I have the Breakerless SE system. I don't think by just observing a car running that anyone could tell if you have one of these installed.

[William B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Don, thank you, Your explanation is what I was looking for. I am thinking about having a demonstration at our next judging school, using both types of regulators to train our judges in being able to detect the solid state

[Gene M.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Keith, please read the question. I wanted to assure myself that watching the voltmeter bounce was the best way to determine if it had an original regulator.

No it’s not. Just remove two screws and take the cover off. It will be very apparent looking at the missing coils.

[William B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Gene, I am talking on the judging field, for certain you know that would not be proper

[Frank D.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Gene, I am talking on the judging field, for certain you know that would not be proper

As John Hinckley has said, most judges detect the solid state V/R because owners apply an original cover over the V/R-715 baseplate and it can be seen if one looks carefully.

If an original base is also used to enclose the solid state regulator its appearance is basically undetectable and will pass flight judging (mine did in a regional)...the solid state unit deflects heavily -- like an original, when a large load is applied and so it will pass ops check (mine did)...
My conversion could only be detected by using an inspection mirror under the unit and seeing the brass nuts/bolts at the connector terminals and even that could be addressed if one wanted.

I've never attempted a PV so I can't say with certainty....but a judge riding shotgun and with that gauge over the driver's left knee and the subtle differences in gauge operation (if there even are any) would be hard to detect IMO. When I get my oil leak fixed perhaps I'll drive my car and film the action of the solid state regulator and some more knowledgeable folks can comment..

As to the Breakerless SE - its completely undetectable with the distributor cap installed unless you have X-ray vision; a solid-state radio conversion in an original case is undetectable as well (if done properly) in a C2 (a C1 won't have the "warm up" period which is a giveaway)...
Quartz clock ? Don't even think about it.

I'll defer on the moral debate about fooling the judges and stick with the OP's technical question.

There are plenty of folks running AGM batteries inside a Delco original-style case that have the same dilemma IMO...

[Dick W.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Gene, I am talking on the judging field, for certain you know that would not be proper

Don't hold your breath, there are some that would try that. There have been numerous rules written because of my interpretation of the rules I come from the school, nothing is illegal unless you get caught!

[Gene M.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Don't hold your breath, there are some that would try that. There have been numerous rules written because of my interpretation of the rules I come from the school, nothing is illegal unless you get caught!

Fine, as long as one is willing to accept the consequences when caught with the same enthusiasm.

[Dick W.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Half the fun in judging is that you know what is wrong with your car and watching the judges trying to find it. I never was an anal retentive judge, if if it looked like a duck, quacked like a duck, and walked like a duck it probably was a duck.

I tried to have fun and make it fun for the car owners. The only time I would come down hard is if the owner was trying to misrepresent what the car was, i.e. 435 hp vs 300 hp

[Mark S.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

We need more judges like you, Mr. Whittington!