To Change-Out AC Refrigerant, or Not?

[Elliott P.]

againthis Guy

[Edward B.]

Re: To Change-Out AC Refrigerant, or Not?

If one is a passionate passenger on the environmental railroad, change over. If not, stick with the R12.

[Tom L.]

Re: To Change-Out AC Refrigerant, or Not?

I've been a proponent of switching to 134a for a while as long as the conversion is done properly. Did it on my '72 and it works great. Not sure why some have issues but that's another story. The reason I converted is because I had to replace everything. Evap, drier, ALL the lines, POV, etc... For me 134a was the best path.

My opinion about a retrofit has changed recently, particularly if a system is working and only has leak issues that can be resolved. R12 will be available for a while. In fact I can get a skid of virgin 30 lb. cylinders by Monday if anyone is interested. All you'd need is deep pockets and a use. There's plenty out there. The reason for my change of heart is this, 134a and some of the other HFC's are on their way out. By the time R12 is not available, we may not be here, and other hydrocarbon refrigerants are being introduced. I'm in the commercial end of the business and have found that R600 (AKA Butane) is being used in many self contained display coolers (All those small red Bull coolers use it). Tuesday I came across a 2 door reach in cooler that was using R290 (AKA Propane). There's lots of change already, even here in the US where we usually resist change the most.

We're in what I call the 3rd generation of refrigerants since I've been in the business, hydrocarbon refrigerants will likely be the 4th. Not far into the future there will be an R12 hydrocarbon replacement that is recognized as a suitable drop in. Meaning that no oil change would be required since Hydrocarbons are miscible with mineral oil.

For me 134a was a no brainer since I had to replace most of my system. For others going through a retrofit would be a choice based on the condition of the system and what has to be done to it to get it running again. It's mostly personal choice, there are options that work.

[Elliott P.]

Re: To Change-Out AC Refrigerant, or Not?

Thanks Tom for your response.

It would seem that R1234yf (2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene) is already the chosen next generation of automotive refrigerant (already adopted in EU). And it may even be a drop-in replacement for R134a, being compatible with the same lubricant. Fine tuning and testing is on-going. It currently is quite expensive, with the major production being in China. However, Honeywell has opened a plant in Louisiana in 2017 to also produce the gas.

A major scare was its purported being slightlyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...afluoropropene

[Dick W.]

Re: To Change-Out AC Refrigerant, or Not?

Thanks Tom for your response.

It would seem that R1234yf (2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene) is already the chosen next generation of automotive refrigerant (already adopted in EU). And it may even be a drop-in replacement for R134a, being compatible with the same lubricant. Fine tuning and testing is on-going. It currently is quite expensive, with the major production being in China. However, Honeywell has opened a plant in Louisiana in 2017 to also produce the gas.

A major scare was its purported being slightly flammable, which has been notched down by further testing. But you will still see alarmist stuff on the all-knowing internet advising you to not buy a new car with this refrigerant. But…, flammability is a major issue in automotive refrigerants, and flammable refrigerants (such as Butane and Propane) are currently outlawed for this application.

The good news for greenies and tree-huggers is that that the estimated Global Warming Potential of R1234yf is slightly less than the standard for comparison, carbon dioxide, even at 100 years. You can check Wikipedia for a good summary of R1234yf @: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,...afluoropropene

Then the question goes begging, why not change over to R1234yf instead of R134a? Well.., the up-front money may be the same as with R134a, but the current R1234yf gas is very expensive, and the dust has probably not all settled as yet. Oh…, and those scientist types may still stumble upon yet another unintended consequence. Or…, you could take a leap-of-faith and change over to R134a, and then change over to R1234yf, when (and if) the price of the gas came down.

From what I have been reading, R1234-yf is a stopgap until they get mobile compressors designed that can handle the even more environmentally friendly refrigerants. They are using some of them in stationary applications and with screw compressors.