Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

[Mark E.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I've never seen a vintage Porsche or Ferrari with whitewalls.

Duke

[Mark P.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Duke - have you heard anything about California shops not willing to repair or work on tires that have an expired DOT dates ? At a recent NCRS chapter meeting this was mentioned. The DOT tire expiration date is 6 years I believe.

My set of P4000's are 9 years old but only have about 2,000 miles on them. Any comparable performing tires you know of ?

Thanks,

Mark

[John D.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I purchased the Tiger Paw AWP white wall tire a few months back. The black bled through the white walls. Had two sets of replacements sent and they were worse than on the car due to damage during transport.

I finally ordered some Diamondbacks.

Erv

I put the tiger paws on my 67 last year. The whitewalls did yellow up a bit over the winter but no black wall bleed through. Diamonbacks are much much pricier.

[Duke W.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Duke - have you heard anything about California shops not willing to repair or work on tires that have an expired DOT dates ? At a recent NCRS chapter meeting this was mentioned. The DOT tire expiration date is 6 years I believe.

My set of P4000's are 9 years old but only have about 2,000 miles on them. Any comparable performing tires you know of ?

Thanks,

Mark

I've heard that story, but I don't think all shops have that policy. I mentioned two good currently available tires in post #15.

Duke

[Jack H.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Duke - have you heard anything about California shops not willing to repair or work on tires that have an expired DOT dates ? At a recent NCRS chapter meeting this was mentioned. The DOT tire expiration date is 6 years I believe.

My set of P4000's are 9 years old but only have about 2,000 miles on them. Any comparable performing tires you know of ?

Thanks,

Mark

Sadly that's not just in California. I'm in Ohio and had a flat in my old beater pickup truck a couple years back. The truck sits more that it's driven, so the tires had what I was told was "expired" dates and none of the typical tire stores would touch it...said it was illegal for them to do anything but dismount them for replacement.

On the other hand, it wasn't too hard to drive a bit farther and find a non-chain, oldschool place to fix it at the time, but sadly those places are disappearing fast. You also don't find anyone willing to simply "plug" a tire anymore, I guess that is also illegal for professionals these days too.

[John S.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

You bet I am. Have a set on my 67 also. Those P4000s were a great tire choice for C2s!

[Joe L.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Sadly that's not just in California. I'm in Ohio and had a flat in my old beater pickup truck a couple years back. The truck sits more that it's driven, so the tires had what I was told was "expired" dates and none of the typical tire stores would touch it...said it was illegal for them to do anything but dismount them for replacement.

On the other hand, it wasn't too hard to drive a bit farther and find a non-chain, oldschool place to fix it at the time, but sadly those places are disappearing fast. You also don't find anyone willing to simply "plug" a tire anymore, I guess that is also illegal for professionals these days too.

Jack------


You can plug them, yourself. I have used plug-type repairs for years and I've never had the slightest problem with a single one. I have a high quality repair kit from Safety Seal of Peabody, MA. Very easy to use and 100% effective. It will repair any puncture that otherwise would be repaired from inside the tire. Of course, punctures that cannot be repaired from inside the tire (e.g. too large of a hole, sidewall puncture, etc.) cannot be repaired with the Safety Seal kit, either.

The other great advantage of the Safety Seal repair is that one can take the kit with them on a road trip. If there's a repairable puncture along the way, one can fix it wherever one's at and be back on the road again without the need to find a tire repair facility. In the old days, just about any gas station could do a tire repair but that's not how it is anymore.

[Duke W.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Sadly that's not just in California. I'm in Ohio and had a flat in my old beater pickup truck a couple years back. The truck sits more that it's driven, so the tires had what I was told was "expired" dates and none of the typical tire stores would touch it...said it was illegal for them to do anything but dismount them for replacement.

On the other hand, it wasn't too hard to drive a bit farther and find a non-chain, oldschool place to fix it at the time, but sadly those places are disappearing fast. You also don't find anyone willing to simply "plug" a tire anymore, I guess that is also illegal for professionals these days too.

I'm not aware of any federal or state laws that place an arbitrary "expiration" date on tires or disallow plug repairs.

This "tire age" discussion started with the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire fiasco back in the early 2000s. There were congressional hearings and expert witnesses convinced congress that there is no reasonable arbitrary age limit. There are too many variables starting with the quality of the original construction and materials. It was clear that those Firestone tires were manufactured with substandard materials, and whatever quality control standards existed were not being followed. It was scandalous, and Ford's low tire pressure recommendation, exacerbated by owners overloading them and not maintaining even the low recommended pressure was a contributing cause of the high tread separation rate resulting in accidents, many fatal.

So, if you run into this attitude, shop around. As stated, small independent shops will probably be more amenable to plugging an old tire or mounting old tires that you've stored once they know the type of service they will see.

A couple of years ago I had an nearby local independent shop plug a rear tire on my '91 MR2, a Yokohama A509 225/60R14 94H. I think it dates to the late nineties, has about half the original tread depth, no signs of aging, and the tire and wheel were spotless inside and out. As a service to the community they don't charge for tire plugs. I brought the tire in with another car and had marked the puncture with a tire crayon. The shop manager did the plug - took a couple of minutes - and I donated ten bucks to the office coffee fund.

I don't recall that he even looked at the tire's date code.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I'm not aware of any federal or state laws that place an arbitrary "expiration" date on tires or disallow plug repairs.

This "tire age" discussion started with the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire fiasco back in the early 2000s. There were congressional hearings and expert witnesses convinced congress that there is no reasonable arbitrary age limit. There are too many variables starting with the quality of the original construction and materials. It was clear that those Firestone tires were manufactured with substandard materials, and whatever quality control standards existed were not being followed. It was scandalous, and Ford's low tire pressure recommendation, exacerbated by owners overloading them and not maintaining even the low recommended pressure was a contributing cause of the high tread separation rate resulting in accidents, many fatal.

So, if you run into this attitude, shop around. As stated, small independent shops will probably be more amenable to plugging an old tire or mounting old tires that you've stored once they know the type of service they will see.

A couple of years ago I had an nearby local independent shop plug a rear tire on my '91 MR2, a Yokohama A509 225/60R14 94H. I think it dates to the late nineties, has about half the original tread depth, no signs of aging, and the tire and wheel were spotless inside and out. As a service to the community they don't charge for tire plugs. I brought the tire in with another car and had marked the puncture with a tire crayon. The shop manager did the plug - took a couple of minutes - and I donated ten bucks to the office coffee fund.

I don't recall that he even looked at the tire's date code.

Duke

Duke------


Another thing for folks to keep in mind regarding this "tire age thing": when you buy a new set of tires, check the date on them. Just because they are new and unused does not mean they are "freshly manufactured". If it's a slow selling size and model you might find that they are several years old from the get-go. Several years ago I purchased a set of new Goodyear Eagle F1 tires for my 1992. Of course, these were not in stock and had to be ordered. The date on the tires indicated they were over 3 years old. So, if one were to follow the "6 year rule", then half of the life of these tires was "used up" before their first mile on the road.

Something else: I just can't figure out how degradation of tires is related to age alone. Rubber tires are about as "non-bio-degradable" as anything could be. That's why worn out tires have been such a disposal problem for years. I can understand, of course, that tires that show evidence of degradation such as sidewall cracking, etc. should be considered unsafe and replaced. However, I just don't understand how a tire that's little or never used, has been in a protected environment (e.g. in reasonable temperature storage or on a garaged car) and evidences absolutely no physical signs of deterioration can be considered "expired" or unsafe to use. I just cannot figure out what the "mechanism of degradation" is.

Another thing: re-capped tires have been available for years and, as far as I know, still are (I have not bought one in over 50 years, though), especially for heavy truck tires. In the case of these tires, the carcasses must be well over 6 years old. So, are all re-capped tires inherently unsafe from the "get-go"? If a shop sold someone a re-capped tire and that person got a nail puncture flat the next day, would it be illegal for the shop to repair the tire?

[Duke W.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Good point. I always like "fresh" tires, not more than six month old, but with a low volume tire or one out of production they might be older.

As far as "aging" is concerned, properly stored tires (cool, dark, with no nearby electrical motors that might generate ozone) age very slowly. My nearly 60 year old set of 7.00-15 GY Bluestreak Sports Car Specials still have the stickers on the tread and no cracks. IMO they are fine for local driving, but I would be hesitant to take them on a long trip in hot weather.

Again, the design and build quality of the tire has to be taken into account, and then how it is used (stored, or installed on an occasionally driven car that spends most of it's time in a garage, or a daily driver that bakes in the sun all year long). That's why I recommend at least H or above speed rated tires that have the spiral wound nylon cap belt.

Some tire stores might be concerned with liability, mounting or repairing tires more than six years old, and if they can convince a prospective custom that any tire is "unsafe" if over six years old, they'll sell more tires.

Duke

[Joseph S.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Have to add my two cents here, could not get any chain tire shop to plug a 12 year old Goodyear in excellent shape. They wouldn’t even break the bead so I could do it. Obviously their business is designed to sell not fix. Found a local shop (garage) but not many left, even in TX.

[Michael J.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I tried to get Discount Tire to mount one of my non-DOT 6.70X15 Firestones for my spare for judging. They laughed and said they would go to prison if they did that, they refused. I took it to a neighborhood shop and got it mounted, yes, they are getting fewer.

[Joe L.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

Have to add my two cents here, could not get any chain tire shop to plug a 12 year old Goodyear in excellent shape. They wouldn’t even break the bead so I could do it. Obviously their business is designed to sell not fix. Found a local shop (garage) but not many left, even in TX.

Joseph------


Like I said, repair it yourself. You don't need to dismount the tire.

[Joe L.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I tried to get Discount Tire to mount one of my non-DOT 6.70X15 Firestones for my spare for judging. They laughed and said they would go to prison if they did that, they refused. I took it to a neighborhood shop and got it mounted, yes, they are getting fewer.

Michael------


Ask them to cite the specific law that they don't want to violate. I'm very interested.

[Mark P.]

Re: Time to Replace 15 year Old Pirelli P4000 Tires

I just called my local tire shop in Northern California and they told me they look for a minimum of 2/32nds of tread and want to make sure there is no visible cracking before working on an expired date tire. Glad they are open minded to doing this.