Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

[Wayne H.]

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

The deductions generally are itemized. For example, holes in the firewall, pulley configuration, belts missing or different than original, etc. The 300 is the estimate of adding up all the line items.

Does that make sense?

[Wayne H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Thank you Patrick, The way you explain it makes complete sense.

What's confusing to me is the editor's note on top of the article. It reads like a declaritive statement that"...C2s with aftermarket A/C should receive a minimum deduction of 300 points". It does not use the word 'estimate'.

AC NCRS 1.jpg

[Harry S.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Thank you Patrick, The way you explain it makes complete sense.

What's confusing to me is the editor's note on top of the article. It reads like a declaritive statement that"...C2s with aftermarket A/C should receive a minimum deduction of 300 points". It does not use the word 'estimate'.

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Wayne, the word minimum is actually appropriate. That's the bottom. Depending on the changes to add the A/C, the deduction goes up. Dave B. did say that if you did install factory A/C and it was not caught, then no deductions. There are tell tale signs to let the judges know if a car was born with A/C or not, so not being detected would be very rare.

[Wayne H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Wayne, the word minimum is actually appropriate. That's the bottom. Depending on the changes to add the A/C, the deduction goes up. Dave B. did say that if you did install factory A/C and it was not caught, then no deductions. There are tell tale signs to let the judges know if a car was born with A/C or not, so not being detected would be very rare.

I may be missing something, but I see 2 ways to interpret this:

1] the "blanket" deduction upon determining the existence of aftermarket A/C is a minimum 300 points,

as the editor's note suggests.

Then they add more deductions based on changes in the pulleys, firewall, etc.

2] As Post # 2 says; the deductions are made as they find them, and there is no 'blanket' minimum deduction of 300 pts, as the editor's note suggests.

BTW, my A/C is very obvious and not hidden.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

There is no blanket deduction.

The "powers that be" sat around and added up possible changes, and they computed that if they were all detected and deducted appropriately it would be at least 300 points.

[Wayne H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

There is no blanket deduction.

The "powers that be" sat around and added up possible changes, and they computed that if they were all detected and deducted appropriately it would be at least 300 points.

Thanks again.
The word 'should' in the editor's note seemed to mean the 300 point deduction was automatically mandated. Now I understand.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Thanks again.
The word 'should' in the editor's note seemed to mean the 300 point deduction was automatically mandated. Now I understand.

Judging Chairman's note.

[Frank D.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

One can dance around the wording all they want - bottom line is that you're not getting a Top Flight with aftermarket air...
If you installed the system per instructions (at least in the case of Vintage Air) you'll hit the 300 point deduction IMO...

If the car was a factory air car converted to aftermarket A/C I can't say but I think you'd still take a huge hit...

[Gary B.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

One can dance around the wording all they want - bottom line is that you're not getting a Top Flight with aftermarket air...
If you installed the system per instructions (at least in the case of Vintage Air) you'll hit the 300 point deduction IMO...

If the car was a factory air car converted to aftermarket A/C I can't say but I think you'd still take a huge hit...

Frank,

Even with a 300 pt deduct, I think a TF is still possible with driving points, but I wouldn't call it easy to achieve.

Gary

[Bob K.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Wayne, I believe the modifications required to install a "Classic Air" system are similar to that of a "Vintage Air" system. Early C2 will get hit harder than a 66/67 due to the location of the Alternator. The National Judging Chair stated the deductions ought to be 300 for a C2, when I totaled the deductions for my 66 is was more like 148. Judges will all see thing differently so could 148 go to 300, maybe. Lot depends on how the system was installed and what of the existing systems were modified. Driving points will offset some of the losses. Car could possibly make Top Flight, but could never achieve a Mark of Excellence Award.

[Frank D.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

I'll have to dig out the Restorer article on the A/C - I saw no distinction drawn between which company's aftermarket A/C was used nor whether the judged car was an early C2 or later IIRC.....and it was pretty clear (or so I thought) that 300 points would be a pretty consistent "hit"...

Maybe I'll do that later this evening...

[Wayne H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Wayne, I believe the modifications required to install a "Classic Air" system are similar to that of a "Vintage Air" system. Early C2 will get hit harder than a 66/67 due to the location of the Alternator.

Yes my alternator is original and located where it should be. My car is a '67.
The Chapter holds its judging only 30 miles away from me, so there's no driving points. Also, they postponed the judging till October.

I never went to a judging, but I hear it's an interesting experience. If my car scores a respectable second flight, I'll be happy with that.

[Bob K.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Wayne, I authored the article in Restorer that talked about the vintage air. Call me if you want to discuss, I am also chairman for the Carolinas Chapter.

[David H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

...and it was pretty clear (or so I thought) that 300 points would be a pretty consistent "hit"...

Not consistent. As a judging school, our chapter did a "Vintage Air" assessment on a member's 1963 split window. That car is concours with modifications for a "Front-Runner" single belt system, etc, etc. Very nice car, but approached 500 points total deduction. Expect on a minimally modified car you would get around that 300 point level.

Concours is a better fit for VA cars than Flight, IMO.

Dave