Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

[Harry S.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

David, I am absolutely confused. Concours and flight judging with added A/C have nothing to do with one another. Are you trying to make a connection? Hopefully not.

[David H.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

David, I am absolutely confused. Concours and flight judging with added A/C have nothing to do with one another. Are you trying to make a connection? Hopefully not.

Harry,

No connection.

Our judging school was for Flight judging. The example car I used for this school had VAir installed. VAir installation included, in this case, a Front Runner compressor, alternator, water pump, etc. On this particular car (1963) Front Runner system requires modification (divot) of front frame crossmember (like a 1965 & on). This car served as a good example of what kinds of things might be modified with a VAir installation.

My point was Vintage Air modified cars are more appropriate in Concours.

Dave

[Frank D.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

The Vintage Air "Front Runner" addition is a whole topic in itself....more of a restomod change to my thinking and nothing subtle about it.

My split window took a 93% Second Flight at the Winter Regionals in Lakeland in 2016.....Vintage Air and overly shiny paint knocked me out of a Top Flight - before the deductions were codified as discussed above the point hits were all over the place for A/C.

Its commendable that some standardization is now provided....however the "weight" of the deductions involved, 300 or 500 or whatever points, is going to keep some people from having their car Flight judged - its that simple.

[Frank D.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

No kidding,

Governor locked the state of Florida down for 30 days after midnight tonight so I took the 63 coupe for possibly its last ride for a month....this morning.

I'll spend the "down" time detailing the undercarriage which has needed it for a long time...its not too horrible a job if you have a lift..

[Frank D.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

My brothers live in Norfolk and I won't repeat what they think about your governor - stay safe is the main thing...
I'm thinking of restoring my 63's original heater box while on the 30 day "house arrest" in case I want to reverse the Vintage Air install (or a new owner does)...
Its in really rough shape though and one reason it got removed..

[Michael L.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Hi All
I totally understand what you are saying about Aftermarket air. I would not do that.
But I was asking about installing O.E Factory GM Air conditioning

[Richard M.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Michael, You replied to that linked thread in your original thread in error.

I believe Your reply was meant to go here....
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...tible-Thoughts

[Harry S.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Michael, You replied to that linked thread in your original thread in error.

I believe Your reply was meant to go here....
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...tible-Thoughts

Rich, agree, wrong thread.

I'll answer his question. Let's assume you car has never been judged and there is no known history.

If you install all factory components and the installation is not detected then there is no point deduction, this is from the National Judging Office. I'm more familiar with C2 air car and on that model there are many "Tells" to indicate a car is born with or not born with air (C60). I'm sure there are just as many on a C3, but I do not know what they are. I would guess that the added C60 would be detected.

Good Luck

[Bob K.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

The change / way it was viewed by judging for aftermarket A/C occurred after your car;s's judging in 2006. If it is an early C2 (63-65) the deductions may be / will be greater than 300. Yes the items are itemized and the installation effect all sections judged. Call me if you want to discuss. Still possible to Top Flight, but it can be a challenge.

[Don L.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Interesting article. Thanks to all for the insight.

I have a friend that's interested in adding Vintage Air to a high value '66 convertible. In addition to the points hit, are there any permanent modifications that need to be made to a car when adding aftermarket AC? In other words, can Vintage AC be reversed without any "scars" to the car?

Thanks in advice for any advice.

[Bob K.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Don, providing the owner kept all the original parts (console side panels, defroster diffuser, blower motor/heater coil unit, control cables, glove box insert, right side kick panel vent grill & cable, bolts, hoses, alternator if changed, etc), you could go back to the way the car was. There may be a few extra small holes here and there, depending on how the system was installed. The biggest issue will be with the defroster and Heater control knobs. the originals are push pull cables. VA uses micro switches. to keep the micro switches from turning a small notch is cut into the console. these are located under the bezels so they aren't noticeable. The wiring harness may be an issue, again depending on how the VA was installed. On my car they did not cut into/modify the existing harness, they ran extra wires that are terminated on the battery disconnects.

[Don L.]

Re: Judging Deductions for Added A/C, 300 Points?

Don, providing the owner kept all the original parts (console side panels, defroster diffuser, blower motor/heater coil unit, control cables, glove box insert, right side kick panel vent grill & cable, bolts, hoses, alternator if changed, etc), you could go back to the way the car was. There may be a few extra small holes here and there, depending on how the system was installed. The biggest issue will be with the defroster and Heater control knobs. the originals are push pull cables. VA uses micro switches. to keep the micro switches from turning a small notch is cut into the console. these are located under the bezels so they aren't noticeable. The wiring harness may be an issue, again depending on how the VA was installed. On my car they did not cut into/modify the existing harness, they ran extra wires that are terminated on the battery disconnects.