C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

[Larry E.]

On my 66 Vette I noticed that the Headlamp Buckets work but a bit slow. I assume they have
never been out of the car. Question: Can one spray a lubricant like "Prelube 6" or WD 40 for that
matter around all the pivot points? Would this even help? Or is this a No No?? Thanks in Advance-Larry

[Richard G.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Every headlight rotating system, I have had apart, the slowness was from the the gearbox.
Specifically, the cheap and very hard grease in them.
My experience is from only one part of the country, others could be different.
Easy enough to ascertain which is the issue the gearbox or the pivots. Pull the gearbox off the end of the shaft and rotate the buckets by hand.
They should move very easily. If they rotate easily its likely the gearbox.
To inspect the motor;
Pull the gearbox off the motor and gut the internals. Reinstall just the gearbox side plate that attaches to the motor.
This way you can run the motor by its self to eliminate it as the issue.
Rick

[John F.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Do not spray anything on them. You will need to pull the motor only. Check for threads on this forum or the Corvette Forum. In most cases it is dried up grease on the gear assembly or a galled gear. You won't know until you pull one out. It is very easy when you have a friend help remove the hood first. Etch around the hood hinges to help with reassembly. There is only one bolt and one clip. There are a few threads on this subject. Section 12 in the Assembly Manual is a great help.

[Larry E.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Thanks for the advice from the two of you. I will live with the "slow problem" before taking on a project like you
indicate. I hope someone can answer my question on the spray lubricate. Will it harm anything if it is applied?
Will it help a little bit for the problem? Thanks-Larry P.S. Car is a trailer queen and never used at night but still
would like the buckets to work a little better.

[Ed S.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Larry - to answer you question specifically, "will it harm anything"? Probably not - I have had my buckets and all associated parts completely out - there is nothing associated with the pivot points that might be harmed if you shot some WD40 or another lubricant (that is not harmful to paint) in that area. At worse, you will likely have somewhat of a dripping mess for several reasons: 1) tight quarters and difficult to get a spray tube in the precisely the right place to apply some lubricant, 2) if installed correctly the pivot balls are "almost" sealed, the last component that goes on the shaft is a heavy fiber-type pad that seals the friction surfaces, 3) the whole assembly 0on each side is presses up against a tight fitting rubber dust gasket, again if your buckets were assembled / installed properly you are going to have a challenge to get WD 40 past the gasket and the pad to do any good. Finally, the AIM and other rebuild references specify the application of a non hardening grease to the pivot balls - something that will not run out like WD40. If you have not removed the motors or headlight buckets from a C2 before there are several great "how-to" referenced on this subject in the Mid Atlantic Chapter Tech Library - Just scroll down to the "Electrical" section, you will see the articles there. Here is a link to the Tech Library - good luck. https://www.ncrsmac.org/Tech-Library

[Ed S.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Larry - one more thing, if you get ambitions and decide to remove the motors to repair / restore them. A few tips. Getting them out and then disassembling, repairing and reassembling them is pretty easy, and parts are available. Reinstalling them is a different story - not impossible but just a challenge because you really can't see what you are doing. One major issue - PAY ATTENTION TO THIS. When you disassemble the motors the motor should pull out of its AL case relatively easily - if it does not DO NOT YANK HARD ON IT. The reason is that there is a round brass bushing on the shaft way inside the motor. The shaft should spin freely around the bushing - if it is free the armature comes out easily - if it is frozen in place it does not come out easily. The problem is that there is a tension retainer that is welded into the bottom of the AL housing - that is what holds the bushing in place. If the bushing is stuck on the shaft and you pull it out - bushing and all - it is impossible - IMPOSSIBLE - to get the bushing back into its intended position - you have to grind the tension retainer out and then tack weld a new one in place with a new bushing installed - bushings are available. If the armature does not slide out easily - you can apply penetrating lube to the bushing from the opposite end of the AL housing - it is right there at the end of the housing - easy to get penetrating lube on it from the outside.

[Larry E.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Thanks Ed for the response. I would never attempt a job like this now knowing I got to take the Hood off. I'm restoring other parts of the car so the "Bucket" problem is low priority for me since they are working.(Slow) If there is a simple fix I will do. I have very good mechanic friend that could do this at a later date. BTW>Have you looked at my other question on the "side to side gap tolerance". It is below this thread on the board. Thanks>Larry

[Rich G.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

I have lubricated the buckets on my 66 for a couple of years with WD40. No ill effects. I started when I had one slow bucket a year after a motor rebuild. I also found a bad ground on the horn on that side, which probably was the problem.

I know your problem is with both sides, but I am posting this for future reference. Check grounds too. Especially if only one side is slow.


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[Ed S.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

I have lubricated the buckets on my 66 for a couple of years with WD40. No ill effects. I started when I had one slow bucket a year after a motor rebuild. I also found a bad ground on the horn on that side, which probably was the problem.

I know your problem is with both sides, but I am posting this for future reference. Check grounds too. Especially if only one side is slow.


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Rich raises a good point - damage occurs to the motors when one bucket is running slower than the other. In those cases you tend to hold the control switch on until both buckets are fully opened or closed. The problem is power continuously goes to both motors until you release the switch. When one bucket gets to the desired (open or closed) position and you are waiting for the second bucket to catch up the motor in the first bucket continues to try to turn - except that it has reached its stop so what happens is the gears in the motor get damaged. The "stop" switch does not control the flow of power to either motor - it only controls power to the blinking light on the dash - the blinking light is a visual signal to the operator that both buckets have "arrived" - power continues to flow to both motors until you release the switch. Accordingly, it is important to have both buckets in near perfect (as close as you can get them) synchronization so they arrive at the desired position at the same time - not easy to do. Regarding cleaning grounds - I recommend cleaning all electrical contacts not just grounds. That may fix the problem you are having.

[Bob R.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Larry,
It is not necessary to remove the hood to get the motors out and replaced, it is easier but not necessary. With the hood open you can reach under the front nose and remove the motors using a mirror. There is only a 1/4" head bolt, the wiring plug and a clip holding it in. The motor is a little larger than the opening with the hood on the brace so you have to have a friend hold the hood to its most vertical position and the motor will fit through the opening. Make sure you install a safety pin in the hood brace before putting your hands in the front opening. Installing the motor is a little more difficult because you are working upside down with a mirror and lining things up will take a little time. It is an easy job made difficult because you are working upside down with a mirror.

[Ed S.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

Bob is correct on all points. I did not remove my hood - took out both motors and buckets - completely. Getting everything out is not the difficult part - it is getting it all back in. If your buckets are not running in rhythm now you are going to have to do it sooner or later. It was impossible (for me) to get everything back in with the hood on. Working upside down and backwards was too complicated. Instead of removing the hood I removed the front bumpers and grill - that was not difficult at all and then I had plenty of room to work from underneath. Reinstalling the headlight assemblies and motors was easy.... then. And, the grill and bumpers went back in easily too.

[Dan B.]

Re: C2 Headlamp Bucket Question

I have examined this problem after installing several motors I rebuilt in these cars, so I know beyond old grease there lies other issues. YES you can lube the pivot ends with WD and that may make the buckets turn smoother as in one finger to move BUT, if you remove the buckets to check further you will likely still find a seized bearing on the shaft if they are originals. Once I addressed the seized bearings, the buckets would actually flop down on their own weight by gravity if you held them open and then let them go. There is another operational level to achieve beyond just oiling a frozen bearing.