Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

[Tony S.]

What type of Anchor was used on each end of the belts on the A85 Shoulder Belt option in 1966 and 1967?
Was there a change in 1967?

[Leif A.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Tony,
Is this the piece you're inquiring about?

https://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000370a~Z5Z5Z5AABZD~P20.00~~~~S5SC0U7O9W76203412006a~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000370a

[Jimmy G.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

If I understand your question correctly, here is my thought. There is a female retainer rivited to the body in the rear fender well area in almost every 66 and 67 i have seen. it is internally located in the luggage area, even if the car was not scheduled for Shoulder Harness, just not cut out for the bolt. This is where the long part of the asembly attaches (through the carpet) with a normal seat belt fastener and a cover. The short belt attaches to the same pivot point (seat belt bolt) as does the inner seat belt. The Judging Reference Manual describes it fairly well.

[Tony S.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Not all 1967 corvettes got the anchor plate. The Shoulder belt anchor that attaches with a special bolt as I have read is the same as the lap belt anchor. The Shoulder harness male belt that is anchored together with he female lap belt ,( console side) has an anchor that is either a continued use HAMBONE or the same anchor as the outboard lap belt anchor. Seat belt restorers display complete sets with the standard lap belt anchors on all ends. So for an Original Shoulder Harness installed as a Factory Assembly Line option what is the correct end for 1967, the Hambone or the standard anchor? I have seen un-restored Shoulder Harness belts for 1966 that use the Hambone for the Male 18.5 inch belt but for 1967 did GM use the standard lap belt Anchors for all SHOULDER HARNESS BELT ENDS?

[Richard M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Tony, I embedded my italicized replies inside your quote. I bolded your text. I included some photos also.

Keep in mind there may be variations to what I have seen and described below.

Hopefully others will share their info too.

Rich

Not all 1967 corvettes got the anchor plate.
I think you meant to say "Not all 1966...."). Early 1966 did not have the anchor reinforcement plate riveted to the body. A85 was available for the entire 1967 model year and all bodies included the reinforcement plate to attach the A85 long female buckle end belt.

The Shoulder belt anchor that attaches with a special bolt as I have read is the same as the lap belt anchor.
Yes... The A85 long belt uses a same width anchor as the lap belt(inner male end). The A85 anchor end that bolts to the body reinforcement has to fit inside the vinyl cover which covers the anchor and bolt. It cannot use the wider Hambone type.

The Shoulder harness male belt that is anchored together with he female lap belt ,( console side) has an anchor that is either a continued use HAMBONE
A85 Male belt used Hambone type. Lap belt used narrow type. or the same anchor as the outboard lap belt anchor. The outboard lap belt is part of the retract assembly with the long bar that bolts to the outer reinforcement plate. I think you meant "inboard".

Seat belt restorers display complete sets with the standard lap belt anchors on all ends. So for an Original Shoulder Harness installed as a Factory Assembly Line option what is the correct end for 1967, the Hambone or the standard anchor?
A85 short inner belt used the wider Hambone type anchor, NOT the narrow type as the lap belt. The long A85 belt used the standard/narrow anchor.

Please post a link to the vendors that you referenced. It is possible some versions are different.

I have seen un-restored Shoulder Harness belts for 1966 that use the Hambone for the Male 18.5 inch belt but for 1967 did GM use the standard lap belt Anchors for all SHOULDER HARNESS BELT ENDS?
I have only seen the Hambone for the A85 Male inner belts for 1967, never the standard/narrow ends. But I have not seen all 1,426 of them.

Original(unrestored) 1967 lap belt set from a November'66 built 1967 convertible. Note narrow anchor plates on inner belts.
p1010026.jpg

After restoration.
P1130001.jpg

A85 before restoration. Note Hambone on short inner belts. Narrow anchor on long belts.
P1010001.jpg P1010002.jpg P1010014.jpg P1010015.jpg P1010016.jpg P1010017.jpg P1010012.jpg P1010007.jpg

After restoration.
P1130009.jpg P1130011.jpg P1130012.jpg P1130013.jpg P1130014.jpg P1130015.jpg P1130016.jpg P1130017.jpg

A85 AIM sheet. Note, not always accurate, but the shapes of the anchor plates match the above.
PC140003.jpg

[Tony S.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

66 shoulder set-3.jpgJR Robbins inboard anchors-2.jpgOriginal seat bolt-5.JPGoriginal seat bolts-3.jpg66 shoulder set-2.jpgYes have have those photos also and you are absolutely correct as I suspected. Also I have read here in some postings by members that their 1967 corvettes with 300 HP engines were not equipped with the re-enforcement anchor plates. I suspect all 1967 corvettes with L79 and all 427 models were equipped. I believe there were 37, 1966 Corvettes, with the optional shoulder belts. Here are some photos that challenged my interest in this subject.

[Richard M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Yes have have those photos also and you are absolutely correct as I suspected. Also I have read here in some postings by members that their 1967 corvettes with 300 HP engines were not equipped with the re-enforcement anchor plates. I suspect all 1967 corvettes with L79 and all 427 models were equipped. I believe there were 37, 1966 Corvettes, with the optional shoulder belts. Here are some photos that challenged my interest in this subject.

Yes I see now why you were asking about the anchor plates. Those short male ended belts have the narrow anchors, and also have a offset bend in them. Are those NOS service replacements? The labels state 1966(model year) but no date code. I would imagine they were available over-the-counter for dealers to add them when requested.

Here is a fabricated/restored set I acquired several years ago for a 67. At the time I didn't notice but now see that the short belt anchor plates are the narrow type also, but flat. They were primarily installed for occupant safety.
P9220050.jpg P9220051.jpg P9220053.jpg

One last note regarding the A85 reinforcement plates riveted to the body. It is my understanding that ALL 1967 had them, regardless of engine. It's hard to imagine that the option could have been engine specific. I think you were misinformed by that 300 HP 1967 owner. The reinforcements are difficult to see with rear tires mounted and maybe he just couldn't see them.

1967 AIM UPC 1 BOLT WELD Sheet B1 shows reinforcement part numbers 3894563-4 L&R, along with the plastic plugs #3738198. The AIM page release date shows 5-16-66, with no notations regarding any items. This confirms to me 1967 ALL cars had these parts installed.

1966 AIM UPC 1 BOLT WELD Sheet B1 shows a notation(note 4) that those items were added 11-11-65 which means at some time after that date the reinforcements/plugs were added to the remaining 1966 bodies to end of production.

Rich

edit add.... 1967 Order Form. Note A85 option line. Available with no requirements.
1967_order_blank_master_sample_b_copy_5560ef075e1596bc8d75c955053055fbe8125a8c.jpg

[Tony S.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Excellent response but I have read many posts as far back as 2003 about A85 Shoulder belts and there is a post that John Z stated that his 1967 convertible 300 HP corvette did not have the anchor plates as another member also stated that his 300 HP convt did not have them either. This reach is getting interesting as I am try to verify is GM changed the anchors on the 1426 A85 Shoulder Harness sets to make it easier for the supplier to produce them. 1968 A85 sets in coupes (standard) on 427 powered cars are the same as 1967 A85 sets other than the Buckle being slightly different with the GM logo.

[Richard M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Excellent response but I have read many posts as far back as 2003 about A85 Shoulder belts and there is a post that John Z stated that his 1967 convertible 300 HP corvette did not have the anchor plates as another member also stated that his 300 HP convt did not have them either. This reach is getting interesting as I am try to verify is GM changed the anchors on the 1426 A85 Shoulder Harness sets to make it easier for the supplier to produce them. 1968 A85 sets in coupes (standard) on 427 powered cars are the same as 1967 A85 sets other than the Buckle being slightly different with the GM logo.

Tony,

I think the only way to prove which A85 belt anchors were used is to see it on the GM design drawings. Maybe they exist somewhere.

I did some searching which confirms what you've found regarding the 1967 A85 reinforcement plate. Good researching effort on your part. I've learned something today. Here are some links for future reference, some of which you were likely referencing. However the last one confused me.


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...light=shoulder
Post# 3 from John Hinckley.... 2002
"Pete -

Noland's 1967 survey indicated that the A85 reinforcements were randomly installed on non-A85 cars, with (most) base-engine cars not getting them, in spite of the fact that the reinforcements are shown in the base car portion of the A.I.M. (UPC 1 Bolt/Weld, Sheet B1, item #11). My base-engine '67 built in June doesn't have them either."


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...light=shoulder
Post# 6 from John Hinckley.... 2004
"Bill -

If you read the A85 section in both the '66 and '67 chapters, it's all about "random" bracket installation on non-A85 cars. FWIW, my very late A.O. Smith '67 convertible (base engine, low-option car) doesn't have them."


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ement+shoulder
Post# 3 from John Hinckley.... 2013 - But this one confused me....
"Gary -

The shoulder belt reinforcement plates on my '67 AOS convertible are clearly black-primed, not plated."


Borrowed photos from this one for reference.
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ement+shoulder

[Tony S.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

1967 Shoulder Harness male short belt anchorage.jpgI will have to find that reference, I have read so many posts I could be mistaken. I have another photo of the anchors attached at the bottom of the console on a confirmed A85 1967 coupe. This is why I am questioning the use of the earlier 65 Hambone and the use of the flat H 6 anchor?

[Joe R.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Tony,

I think the only way to prove which A85 belt anchors were used is to see it on the GM design drawings. Maybe they exist somewhere.

I did some searching which confirms what you've found regarding the 1967 A85 reinforcement plate. Good researching effort on your part. I've learned something today. Here are some links for future reference, some of which you were likely referencing. However the last one confused me.


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...light=shoulder
Post# 3 from John Hinckley.... 2002
"Pete -

Noland's 1967 survey indicated that the A85 reinforcements were randomly installed on non-A85 cars, with (most) base-engine cars not getting them, in spite of the fact that the reinforcements are shown in the base car portion of the A.I.M. (UPC 1 Bolt/Weld, Sheet B1, item #11). My base-engine '67 built in June doesn't have them either."


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...light=shoulder
Post# 6 from John Hinckley.... 2004
"Bill -

If you read the A85 section in both the '66 and '67 chapters, it's all about "random" bracket installation on non-A85 cars. FWIW, my very late A.O. Smith '67 convertible (base engine, low-option car) doesn't have them."


https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ement+shoulder
Post# 3 from John Hinckley.... 2013 - But this one confused me....
"Gary -

The shoulder belt reinforcement plates on my '67 AOS convertible are clearly black-primed, not plated."


Borrowed photos from this one for reference.
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ement+shoulder

I don't want to hijack this thread, but while several experts are discussing the A85 option, I wanted to point out an anomaly in the AIM that caught my eye recently while looking for documentation on the location of the reinforcement plates.

The 1967 AIM page shown below describes a reinforcement arrangement that I have never seen on a production car. The attachment point is on the frame, and a cable is used that passes through the fiberglass body.

Does anyone know the history of how this implementation evolved into the one that actually appeared on most (probably all) 1966-67 Corvettes that had the A85 option?

I know that there are some people in that NCRS that consider the AIM to the ultimate authority on originality, but I suspect this is a good example of a case where the AIM does not match what actually got done in production.

[Peter M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Joe,
I think the N03 (Big Tank) option is the explanation. If any were ever built Mike Johnson might have one?
Kind regards

[Richard M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Joe, Yes Peter is correct. That page you posted is only if the N03 option was included. The cover for the tank covered the access hole for the attach bolt so they used that extension cable, which I think is the same part used for the seatbelt safety anchor. I have never seen a N03 optioned car with A85. That would be a treat to see.

The AIM page you need detailing the reinforcement plates is UPC 1 Bolt/Weld Sheet B1 Item 11

Rich

UPC1B1.jpg
UPC1B1a.jpg

[Joe R.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Thanks for the explanation. I see now that it says this is for the N03 option.

I'm away from home right now and can't double check, but as I recall, my copy of the AIM has only a couple pages for the A85 option and does not include a description of the non-N03 configuration. This was the only page I saw that described the rear mounts.

Is that page missing from only my copy, or is it missing in all the published copies?

[Richard M.]

Re: Original 66L-67 Shoulder Harness Anchor Question

Thanks for the explanation. I see now that it says this is for the N03 option.

I'm away from home right now and can't double check, but as I recall, my copy of the AIM has only a couple pages for the A85 option and does not include a description of the non-N03 configuration. This was the only page I saw that described the rear mounts.

Is that page missing from only my copy, or is it missing in all the published copies?

Joe, There are three A85 AIM pages. A1 is the index, A2 is the non-N03 sheet, A3 is the N03 sheet. Looks like you're missing A1 & A2. But IIRC the pages may be mixed up in some AIM copies. Check yours when you're home and look before and after the A85 pages.

A85 A2
I posted this A2 page earlier in the thread....




Rich