"Production Trends" - Colors - NCRS Discussion Boards

"Production Trends" - Colors

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  • Loren L.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 30, 1976
    • 4104

    #16
    Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

    Let's be CLEAR about David's long ago submission to "correct" some figures/data that were presented by NCRS by offering corrections from this GM document labeled "CONFIDENTIAL" and being furnished to 49 members of Chevrolet (including Phil Passon, RPE St Louis 1959-61; Russ Sanders, EX 122; Rosie Rosenberger, Asst Chief Engr, etc.) that were deemed "controversial" by NCRS and rejected. David's submissions did NOT come out of cyberspace.

    Comment

    • Richard M.
      Super Moderator
      • August 31, 1988
      • 11302

      #17
      Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

      Originally posted by Keith Brodbeck (60464)
      David weather or not there are errors in a it. I think most would love to love to page though the document if you can make it available
      Keith, I have seen it. Someone else showed it to me a long time ago and I've had access to it on occasion. IIRC it's several thousand total pages, plus some are extended sheets. It would probably take a lifetime to page through it all. It covers 1946 to 1970. I would really like to see it digitized with search capability so everyone could have fun with it.

      David will correct me if I have some of this in error....
      The information is basically a chronological history of all of the production numbers with details of quantities, categorized by model years and shows RPO quantities broken down with the various ECLs in each RPO. It doesn't give cross ECL quantities. In other words you can't see if a 1958 Silver/Black car had a base engine or a fuelie. Each RPO quantity and individual ECL quantity is by itself. However the ECL is not defined for each as mentioned above. Too bad it didn't If it did it would just give more details for the individual quantities.

      This is what Noland and John probably used when they did their research for their books. If so it appears there may be some "erroneous" info in some areas. Maybe just some simple typos or things missed by either the researcher or the editor.......Humans.




      Originally posted by David Bartush (3288)
      To clear the air - I am the individual responsible for holding this confidential documentation for years. Acquired from a vendor at Bloomington in the 1980,s it basically breaks down the already published production numbers in the BB, Spec. Guide etc.. Along with other internal GM documentation I have/had correcting errors found in these publications would be like trying to correct the bible. No body wants to believe!
      David, Okay I believe. I'm originally from MA, not MO(Missouri)lol.... so I guess somewhere in there it must show the 36 Silver/Black '58's. I recall a discussion a few years ago(I'll try to find it, found it HERE), about RPO 565 and some questions I had about single letter pre-1963 ECLs that I saw in that PT book. I seem to remember the ECLs can't be understood as each RPO has it's own ECL translation from the BOM(Bill of Materials) for each RPO.

      So.... below, Loren mentioned "corrections". Did some of your research question the RPO codes used in the NCRS Spec Guide, in particular for the 1957 RPO 579E(Airbox-43 cars)? I was always confused by the Spec Guide "E". The PT GM data shows the RPO579D for the Airbox cars, correct?




      Originally posted by Loren Lundberg (912)
      Let's be CLEAR about David's long ago submission to "correct" some figures/data that were presented by NCRS by offering corrections from this GM document labeled "CONFIDENTIAL" and being furnished to 49 members of Chevrolet (including Phil Passon, RPE St Louis 1959-61; Russ Sanders, EX 122; Rosie Rosenberger, Asst Chief Engr, etc.) that were deemed "controversial" by NCRS and rejected. David's submissions did NOT come out of cyberspace.
      Loren, It seems clear to me that since the official GM book has the official information in it, it should definitely be used for updating anything as needed.




      Rich

      Comment

      • Keith B.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • September 15, 2014
        • 1575

        #18
        Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

        Richard maybe there could be a way to break it down by models and years of a specific cars.

        Comment

        • Richard M.
          Super Moderator
          • August 31, 1988
          • 11302

          #19
          Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

          Originally posted by Keith Brodbeck (60464)
          Richard maybe there could be a way to break it down by models and years of a specific cars.
          Keith it's already broken down by years and models. e.g. Corvette, Corvair, Chevelle etc. Within some years they only classify them by Model number, ie like 2900 for the early Corvettes, and like 867 for the later C1s, etc, and for the early Passenger cars by their unique Model number designations.

          What's fun reading is some of the RPOs and FOAs are "Less" this or that. Like Less Radiator, or Less Exhaust, or Less Spare. Interesting.

          Rich

          Comment

          • Keith B.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • September 15, 2014
            • 1575

            #20
            Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

            If that is the case that would be easy to make a printed book or electronic file. I would buy one for mid years and 66-67 Chevelles.

            Comment

            • Richard M.
              Super Moderator
              • August 31, 1988
              • 11302

              #21
              Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

              Originally posted by Keith Brodbeck (60464)
              If that is the case that would be easy to make a printed book or electronic file. I would buy one for mid years and 66-67 Chevelles.
              Ya right Keith easy for you cuz you don't have to do the work!.....Geesh. lol

              Okay Okay....kidding.

              So I borrowed the book last night. It weighs 50 pounds. I'll scan those for you, 63 to 67 and the Chevelle stuff. PM me your email address and I'll send you some fun reading. Gratis. Maybe buy me a Jersey Mike's Cheese Steak when you come to Florida some day. The LARGE size.

              Rich

              Comment

              • Keith B.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • September 15, 2014
                • 1575

                #22
                Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                Come to Corvettes at Carlisle and I will buy you a big Smokey. Thanks so much.

                Comment

                • Richard M.
                  Super Moderator
                  • August 31, 1988
                  • 11302

                  #23
                  Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                  Originally posted by Keith Brodbeck (60464)
                  Come to Corvettes at Carlisle and I will buy you a big Smokey. Thanks so much.
                  Hmmm, gonna need about 3 of those to match the size of that JM CS sammich.

                  So I saw the 1958 Exterior Colors info in the book showing the Silver/Black combo, yup 36 of them. So I believe it now. I concede.

                  Rich

                  Comment

                  • Richard F.
                    Very Frequent User
                    • September 30, 1981
                    • 498

                    #24
                    Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                    Rich my 1958 that I purchased in 1971 with original paint was Inca Silver with Black Coves. That was real......

                    Comment

                    • Richard M.
                      Super Moderator
                      • August 31, 1988
                      • 11302

                      #25
                      Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                      Originally posted by Richard Ferraro (4894)
                      Rich my 1958 that I purchased in 1971 with original paint was Inca Silver with Black Coves. That was real......
                      Bet that was unique then. Now that I'm a believer, knukknuk... I'd love to see a photo of the combo. What was the interior color?

                      Rich

                      Comment

                      • Richard F.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • September 30, 1981
                        • 498

                        #26
                        Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                        Red,I have no photos.
                        Rich

                        Comment

                        • Richard M.
                          Super Moderator
                          • August 31, 1988
                          • 11302

                          #27
                          Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                          That sounds very cool....

                          I poked around and found something close. Not red inside though. Rare combo on the outside for sure..... Rich

                          1958-chevrolet-corvette-base-convertiblehard-top-4.JPG

                          1958-chevrolet-corvette-base-convertiblehard-top-1.JPG

                          1958-chevrolet-corvette-base-convertiblehard-top-3.JPG

                          Comment

                          • Jim L.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • September 30, 1979
                            • 1805

                            #28
                            Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                            My bride's early '59 (#121) was factory painted '58 Panama Yellow. I wonder if the records reflect the carry over of at least one '58 color on at least one '59.

                            Comment

                            • Richard M.
                              Super Moderator
                              • August 31, 1988
                              • 11302

                              #29
                              Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                              Originally posted by Jim Lockwood (2750)
                              My bride's early '59 (#121) was factory painted '58 Panama Yellow. I wonder if the records reflect the carry over of at least one '58 color on at least one '59.
                              Jim I'll look.....

                              I see 5 "Special" in 1959 so maybe one of those. Same info in the Spec Guide(5th ed 2011, p23),
                              albeit it's terminology says "Unknown Special Two-Tone".

                              Rich

                              Comment

                              • Jim L.
                                Extremely Frequent Poster
                                • September 30, 1979
                                • 1805

                                #30
                                Re: "Production Trends" - Colors

                                Originally posted by Richard Mozzetta (13499)
                                Jim I'll look.....

                                I see 5 "Special" in 1959 so maybe one of those. Same info in the Spec Guide(5th ed 2011, p23),
                                albeit it's terminology says "Unknown Special Two-Tone".

                                Rich
                                Rich, thanks for looking. I appreciate the information.

                                Jim

                                Comment

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