General Date Code Question

[Keith M.]

So I am early on with my first restoration...my build date is Oct 1969...approximately 10/25/69...and trying to understand what would be appropriate/logical/best for date codes for various parts. Clearly nothing after the build date....but just curious if there is any prevailing thought on what would be logical range for date codes for parts? What I mean is....for Oct 69 build I presume something like the 6 months ending September or even early Oct would be plausible? Perhaps August or September would be ideal as I would presume parts moved promptly to assembly, vs. warehouse, after they are made. Would something a lot earlier...say Jan 69 or even late 68 be unlikely and frowned upon in judging? Or am I simply overthinking all this?

[Owen L.]

Re: General Date Code Question

On my '72, the engine castings are the "shortest" with all about 2-3 weeks prior to build date. The interior components like seat belts, t-top bags, etc are about 2 months prior. The "longest" date I've noticed is the fan blade showing February for my May car. I think of that 3 month to 2 week window is the general sweet spot for regular production when looking for all dated replacement parts.

[Mike E.]

Re: General Date Code Question

Your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process. Master judges didn't just fall off the turnip truck--they have years of experience, not only in judging cars, but in looking at them here, there, and everywhere.

[Terry M.]

Re: General Date Code Question

Your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process. Master judges didn't just fall off the turnip truck--they have years of experience, not only in judging cars, but in looking at them here, there, and everywhere.

I wish we had a "like" button here. ;-)

[David H.]

Re: General Date Code Question

...my build date is Oct 1969...

Keith

Mike Ernst's "research" recommendation is your best advice.

NCRS' 1968-1968 Technical Information and Judging Guide (Bookstore) is a great data source. Complicating 1969 parts dates is the 10 April thru 9 June Labor Strike. St. Louis Production Line's typical use of parts (most likely) got delayed as a result of this of this strike. Dates you would typically expect to see were delayed by a couple of months. You can't stop/start an assembly line without causing supply chain problems.

With regular 1969 production extending thru December 1969, I would speculate St Louis was using up earlier 1969 parts inventory.

Dave

[Michael J.]

Re: General Date Code Question

I have never had a judge, nor have I as a Master Judge, ever taken deductions for proper configuration parts dated within 6 months before the car's build date. That is the generally accepted date range NCRS uses, as far as I know, except for window glass.

[James G.]

Re: General Date Code Question

your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process. Master judges didn't just fall off the turnip truck--they have years of experience, not only in judging cars, but in looking at them here, there, and everywhere.

like button

[Roy S.]

Re: General Date Code Question

I wish we had a "like" button here. ;-)

Me too, thanks Mike!!!

[Michael J.]

Re: General Date Code Question

I look forward to all this research about the proper date code range for various parts in the various years. Maybe the TIM&JGs will be corrected to not allow the 6 months rule that is in place for judging currently?

[Keith M.]

Re: General Date Code Question

Your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process. Master judges didn't just fall off the turnip truck--they have years of experience, not only in judging cars, but in looking at them here, there, and everywhere.

A contractor friend of mine has a favorite saying..."nah I ain't doin that." ;-) I find this topic to be quite interesting. Bear in mind that for me...this is my first restore ever...I mostly want to get her running as well as possible with an eye toward bringing her back to as original as possible....keeping the door open for future judging which may or may not ever happen. That being said...I have already found this forum extremely helpful and am grateful for that....and I hope to be able to give back.

As I think through this notion of said research...and maybe I just have a lot to learn....but is there data repositories of said original assembly data by vehicle somewhere? Unless part date codes were recorded "as assembled"... what is there to research? There is no way that I can think of to research on "real cars"...even if I had a whole bunch of cars at my disposal that owners would let me examine...how do I know parts onboard are original?

Further, based on my general knowledge of assembly...as parts were manufactured were they then installed FIFO? LIFO? random? Don't think GM was operating on JIT methodology back then...or were they? They would have to have had some degree of stockpile to ensure continuity of the assembly line...therefore...maybe a starter or two got put in an Oct 69 build that had sat on the back of the shelf since January. Further...with the strike in 69 involved...were parts manufacturing halted by RemyDelco as well? If not...in what order did they utilize the "higher than usual" stockpiled parts once assembly recommenced? Always open to learning more...but for my purposes...at least for now...the 6 month rule will do just fine...with ideal for my later Oct build being July to end Sept.

And I DO have the TIM&JG which has all the info about correctness...but very little I have found yet correlating date codes of various parts...eg. starters, distributors, etc...with vehicle assembly dates. There are some generalizations...for some parts....but that is about it.

[Michael J.]

Re: General Date Code Question

A contractor friend of mine has a favorite saying..."nah I ain't doin that." ;-) I find this topic to be quite interesting. Bear in mind that for me...this is my first restore ever...I mostly want to get her running as well as possible with an eye toward bringing her back to as original as possible....keeping the door open for future judging which may or may not ever happen. That being said...I have already found this forum extremely helpful and am grateful for that....and I hope to be able to give back.

As I think through this notion of said research...and maybe I just have a lot to learn....but is there data repositories of said original assembly data by vehicle somewhere? Unless part date codes were recorded "as assembled"... what is there to research? There is no way that I can think of to research on "real cars"...even if I had a whole bunch of cars at my disposal that owners would let me examine...how do I know parts onboard are original?

Further, based on my general knowledge of assembly...as parts were manufactured were they then installed FIFO? LIFO? random? Don't think GM was operating on JIT methodology back then...or were they? They would have to have had some degree of stockpile to ensure continuity of the assembly line...therefore...maybe a starter or two got put in an Oct 69 build that had sat on the back of the shelf since January. Further...with the strike in 69 involved...were parts manufacturing halted by RemyDelco as well? If not...in what order did they utilize the "higher than usual" stockpiled parts once assembly recommenced? Always open to learning more...but for my purposes...at least for now...the 6 month rule will do just fine...with ideal for my later Oct build being July to end Sept.

And I DO have the TIM&JG which has all the info about correctness...but very little I have found yet correlating date codes of various parts...eg. starters, distributors, etc...with vehicle assembly dates. There are some generalizations...for some parts....but that is about it.

"Like" button used......best of luck in your restoration, enjoy the journey, and posting pictures as it goes along is very much appreciated.

[Mike E.]

Re: General Date Code Question

I look forward to all this research about the proper date code range for various parts in the various years. Maybe the TIM&JGs will be corrected to not allow the 6 months rule that is in place for judging currently?

I'm not sure what you are saying. Please elaborate

[Michael J.]

Re: General Date Code Question

I'm not sure what you are saying. Please elaborate

Perhaps I misunderstood your recommendations to the OP, when you said: "Your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process." I was just opining that when he, or anyone, has such research completed it would be good to use it to improve on the universally accepted NCRS 6 month rule.

[Mike E.]

Re: General Date Code Question

Perhaps I misunderstood your recommendations to the OP, when you said: "Your best bet is to do a lot of research on real cars with similar options built in your date range. Many components were batch built, and reproducers/restampers don't do adequate research. That takes time and energy to do, but ultimately, you have a much better feel for what you need, and much greater confidence if you submit to the judging process." I was just opining that when he, or anyone, has such research completed it would be good to use it to improve on the universally accepted NCRS 6 month rule.

[Michael J.]

Re: General Date Code Question

Thanks, yes I fully understand what you are talking about. I have spent more time and money than I should have over the years to get the "right" part too. We all have our own personal level of "anal-ness" to satisfy and that is what makes it fun. But, over the years, as a frequent car owner/judging entrant, and judge, I have come to appreciate the 6 month rule. Judging has so many things involved that need to be checked, having a more complex system to determine exact date code ranges for various parts for various years would be very time consuming for the judges, IMO. Although, it would be interesting to see and hear, from those who have spent the time and effort in researching date ranges for parts, what they have discovered. Maybe some tech sessions at a regional or national?