63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

[Todd L.]

I need some clarity on a correct AC 4657 fuel pump. As you can see in the picture, I have a restored original 4657 pump, and it has two mounting screws holding the bottom die cast piece on. I have seen several 4657 pumps and they all have two screws securing the bottom cap.

The judging manual shows a picture of a pump with (4) screws, two additional ones on the perimeter. It also shows the fuel inlet and outlets being 180 degrees apart, which I don't believe would be possible on the 63 fuel line configuration. The last line of the second paragraph on page 137 of the judging manual calls out "secured with four zinc/cadmium plated slotted pan head screws with an S head mark". Can anyone clarify what is correct? Is it possible that the new 7th edition judging manual may be incorrect?

Thanks!
Todd

[Harry S.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Todd, as far I know there were only two black slotted screws holding on the bottom plate. The screws that held the center section to the top were also black slotted screws. This changed to cad in 64 as I recall. I just checked two that I have, one with the pads and one without. They are the same. This is a picture of one of them.

Think we have another error.

IMG_3213.jpg

IMG_3214.jpg

[Todd L.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Gosh, that's what I was hoping to hear Harry, I spent a wad of cash on the 4657 I have, and it matches your original. Glad I don't have to go on the hunt for one with four screws! Thanks for the feedback!

Todd

[Gary B.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Todd,

The cast pulsator cover (Joe Ciaravino taught me that term) shown in Fig M 9.0 in the 7th edition of the 63/64 JG is the early style cover for the 1964 40083 fuel pump, which is secured with four screws. That cover is not the correct cover for the 1963 4657 pump, which as you said only requires two screws.

Gary

[Todd L.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Who should we contact to get this corrected in the JM?

[Chris M.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Todd,

Figure M 9.0 is supposed to be showing the "two cadmium or zinc plated recessed hex-head bolts with 7/16" heads". In addition to that picture showing the incorrect pump, it also doesn't show the 7/16" bolts. You can see an example of the recessed bolts (one shown on the left) on the pump in the picture below. By the way, that pump picture was also wrong in the V6 judging guide.

IMG_9210.jpg

Has anyone found any other errors in V7?

[Tom R.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Todd, as far I know there were only two black slotted screws holding on the bottom plate. The screws that held the center section to the top were also black slotted screws. This changed to cad in 64 as I recall. I just checked two that I have, one with the pads and one without. They are the same. This is a picture of one of them.

Think we have another error.

Harry can you send me those via email...resolution looks great!

[Chris M.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Tom, Harry's picture is a great picture, but does not have any 7/16" mounting bolts which is what the text for Figure M 9.0 is referring to.

[Tom R.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Gary...Ive made some edits to your post to see if this clarifies things. It seems the text is correct but the images do not represent the correct style pumps by year. See if this clarifies things.

The cast pulsator cover (Joe Ciaravino taught me that term) shown in Fig M 9.0 in the 7th edition of the 63/64 JG is the earlystyle cover for the 1964 40083 fuel pump, which is secured with four screws. That cover is not the correct cover for the 1963 4657 pump, which as you said only requires two screws.

Nice photos!

[Gary B.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Gary...Ive made some edits to your post to see if this clarifies things. It seems the text is correct but the images do not represent the correct style pumps by year. See if this clarifies things.

Nice photos!

[Todd L.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Thanks for more clarity Chris. And since you asked, lol. Page 193 of 7th edition, Ch 8.2 Starter brace - 1963 is a mirror image of what is correct, it is backwards in the photo...

[Mike E.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

The family of two-screw pumps (on the cast pulsator cover) includes 4665, 4656, 4657, 4432, and 6559 (and possibly more). The only external difference in those pumps, besides the stamped part number, is how the center (body) is clocked. Early ones used perimeter screws with an "S" on them, while later did not. Early were black, later were cad/zinc plated.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Has anyone found any other errors in V7?

You're kidding, right?

[Tom R.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

Tom,

Excellent suggestion. I just edited my original post to clarify the two different years of applicability of the two fuel pumps.

I think combining model years ‘63 and ‘64 into a single JG will always make the descriptions in the JG more challenging. But that horse is out of the barn.

Gary

So what was the late 1964 pump P/N of the 40083 is an early pump?

You have no idea than factor in the various power team options by each year. Clarity becomes quite the challenge and little misses throw readers into a loop. Thanks for claryifying

[Tom R.]

Re: 63 AC fuel pump 4657 in judging manual

You're kidding, right?

Patrick, I'm curious how you resolved the search for GM corporate blue for that 77.