'62 front brake problem

[Jerry M.]

I am having trouble with my newly installed new front brake shoes (Raybestos 228PG) and drums (AC Delco 18B382) on my '62. Everything seemed fine with the wheels just snugged but when I torque the lug nuts down, the drums bind on the shoes. If I place a strip of 3M strip caulk along the outer edge of the shoes, it will compress the caulk slightly indicating that there is interference between the outer edge of the shoes and the drum. The shoes (and mounting plates) measure 2 1/16" to 2 1/8" wide.

Has anyone else run into this problem with these shoes and drums. I recall seeing both recommended on previous posts.
Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

I am now considering using an 1/8* spacer between the hub and brake drum to gain the required clearance. Made from 6061 billet aluminum for GM cars with 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern. Available on eBay at $39.75 per pair they should be pretty good quality.
Would this be an acceptable solution?

[John F.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Have you installed correctly?

Sorry about the pic turning.

[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

I sure think so. I'll try to post a photo tomorrow.
Thanks

[Mike E.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

I am now considering using an 1/8* spacer between the hub and brake drum to gain the required clearance. Made from 6061 billet aluminum for GM cars with 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern. Available on eBay at $39.75 per pair they should be pretty good quality.
Would this be an acceptable solution?

[Tom E.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Jerry,
You might want to also check those new drums. Lay a flat edge across the opening and measure to the mounting surface and compare to the led ones. Possible their is a manufacturing difference in the new hub.
Tom

[David H.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

John

Turned and cropped.

Dave

brakes 1962 a.jpg

[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Here's a few photos:
#1 shows overall installation on R/F wheel
#2 shows rear shoe on R/F that shows shoe is fully seated against the backing plate
#3 shows front shoe measuring 2 3/16" width
#4 shows distance from hub face to the outer edge of the shoe measuring 5/8"

62 drums 1 (2).jpg62 drums 2 (2).jpg62 drums 3 (2).jpg62 drums 4 (2).jpg

Measurements are the same on both sides.
One wheel bearing was cleaned and reused. The other was replaced in kind with a NOS Delco 909067 ball bearing style.
Sadly, I must have disposed of the shoes that I removed (and which worked fine for 40+ years). Wish I wouldn't have replaced them.
Old and new drums seem to have identical measurements and the stated problem also exists with the original drums (with anti-chatter spring) installed.
I checked new NAPA shoes and they measure 2 1/16" to 2 1/8"wide.

I appreciate your input and ideas. This really has me stumped

[Dan D.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Here's a few photos:
#1 shows overall installation on R/F wheel
#2 shows rear shoe on R/F that shows shoe is fully seated against the backing plate
#3 shows front shoe measuring 2 3/16" width
#4 shows distance from hub face to the outer edge of the shoe measuring 5/8"

[ATTACH=CONFIG]111228[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111229[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111230[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]111231[/ATTACH]

Measurements are the same on both sides.
One wheel bearing was cleaned and reused. The other was replaced in kind with a NOS Delco 909067 ball bearing style.
Sadly, I must have disposed of the shoes that I removed (and which worked fine for 40+ years). Wish I wouldn't have replaced them.
Old and new drums seem to have identical measurements and the stated problem also exists with the original drums (with anti-chatter spring) installed.
I checked new NAPA shoes and they measure 2 1/16" to 2 1/8"wide.

I appreciate your input and ideas. This really has me stumped

Jerry, I have my 57 apart right now so I went out and measured my shoes. They are exactly 2" wide.

In your last photo on the right, it looks like the lining material is not flush with the steel shoe itself. It should be, perhaps it was not glued on correctly.

But your third picture shows the width of the shoe, which is 2-3/32 - not 2-3/16.

Picture no. 4 also shows the lining not flush with the outside of the shoe. It should be. But regardless, the shoe should be 2.0" wide - not 2-3/32. I think this is your problem. I'm sure clearances are tight in there, and it would not take much to interfere. And you say they worked fine until you replaced the shoes.

I would buy a set of shoes from a different supplier. You could always return them if necessary. My shoes are from NAPA also, from 2 years ago.

Just thinking for a minute, 63 brakes are very similar to the C1s, and perhaps they had slightly wider shoes. I know the wheel cylinders have a slightly larger bore. Could they maybe have the two mixed up? Someone else can offer more on this thought.

If you want I could photo mine tomorrow and send it to you.

Dannnn

[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Dan
Thanks for your thoughts and checking against your '57. One measurement that I would like to compare is my photo #4 which shows 5/8" between the face of the hub and the front edge of the shoe. If this is typically (and yours) is greater then either the shoe is too wide or the hub is somehow recessed in, but I'm not sure how this could happen.

The shoes that I measured at NAPA were also slightly wider than 2". The web sites for Auto Zone, Advance and the Delco website all show the width at 2.07". Maybe newer shoes are a little wider?

I'm also wondering if:
- I am adjusting the shoes to tight? I have to back them off so much to turn freely when the drum is torqued tight, that the drum wiggles pretty good while you are slipping it on.
- Would chamfering the outer edge of the shoe lining a little help?

Anyone have any other ideas?

[Terry D.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

I agree with Dan, take the shoes you have to a different vender, explain the problem and ask to compare their shoes to yours. I got mine from Autozone last year for my 62 and had no problems.

[Dan D.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Dan
Thanks for your thoughts and checking against your '57. One measurement that I would like to compare is my photo #4 which shows 5/8" between the face of the hub and the front edge of the shoe. If this is typically (and yours) is greater then either the shoe is too wide or the hub is somehow recessed in, but I'm not sure how this could happen.

The shoes that I measured at NAPA were also slightly wider than 2". The web sites for Auto Zone, Advance and the Delco website all show the width at 2.07". Maybe newer shoes are a little wider?

I'm also wondering if:
- I am adjusting the shoes to tight? I have to back them off so much to turn freely when the drum is torqued tight, that the drum wiggles pretty good while you are slipping it on.
- Would chamfering the outer edge of the shoe lining a little help?

Anyone have any other ideas?

Hi Jerry,

Sorry it has taken me this long to get back to you. This time of the year I have been quite busy - taxes (*#&^&@(*&), new tires on the car, state inspection, family stuff with the up coming holiday, etc.

My front end is out of the car right now being rebuilt, restored. I will have it back mid-next week, but right now the backing plates are held up to the frame dangling on a wire, so I cannot make that measurement for you. I was going to measure the exact width of the shoes with a micrometer, but I can't get the mics on them unless I remove them and I do not want to do this right now, with everything hanging.

I was going to look at the drums to see if there was any tell-tale signs of just where on the inside of the drums the shoes are riding. My drums were turned .010 two years (about 2k miles) ago, so there probably isn't much evidence yet as the shoes aren't fully seated to the slightly larger diaamenter of the drum. My drums are packed away wrapped in plastic with the bearings sitting in them, so I just don't want to disturb them right now. I should have it all back together in a couple of weeks and can look at everything then, and shoot some photos too.

Dannnnn

[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Dan

No problem. I understand about being busy. In the meantime I took a few more photos in an attempt to help verify or rule out the Raybestos shoes.

Photo #1 shows the distance from the front edge (lip) of my original backing plate to the front face of my original hub (as indicated by the back, flat surface of the file laying across the hub face) at 2 3/4". Comparison of this measurement takes the shoe itself out of the equation.

Photo #2 shows the distance from the front edge of the shoe to the face of the hub (flat edge of the file) at 5/8". If this measurement doesn't jibe and my shoes (at 2 1/16 to 2 3/32) wind up being within an acceptable tolerance this may indicate that the hub is installed to deep somehow (wheel bearing issue ?)

Photo #3 shows the distance from the front edge of my rebuilt original wheel cylinder to the face of the hub at 7/8". Just another verification that hub is not installed on the spindle too far somehow.

Photo #4 shows the hub rear bearing shield installation relative to the backing plate with a slight gap but not touching the backing plate.


62 drums 5 (2).jpg62 drums 6 (2).jpg62 drums 7 (2).jpg62 drums 8 (2).jpg

I've done all this to help verify that the hub is not somehow installed incorrectly on the spindle and causing reduced clearance between the shoe and drum. I'll be doing some research next week to do some physical comparisons to other suppliers shoes against my Raybestos units.
Thanks again for your and everyone else's thoughts and input.

Jerry M

[Dan D.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Hi Jerry,

Have not heard from you in a while, was just wondering how you made out.

I have got my front end back in the car now, and have the brakes back on. Took some photos, but mot sure they will help much.

One thought, do you have the grease shields on the spindles? They space the drums out slightly.

Looking at my drums, one of them has a slight shiny strip around the area that clears the outer edge of the backing plate. Looks like it may be just slightly rubbing the shoe. Not sure, but clearances are tight in there, for sure.

I measured the distance from the recessed area in the backing plate to the outer edge of the shoe; 2-7/16.

Dann

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[Jerry M.]

Re: '62 front brake problem

Hi Dan

Thanks for getting back to me. I've had to get away from my car for awhile but the last thing I was able to do is take a bunch of measurements off my friend Dino's '62 and was able to confirm that his hub faces sit 2/32 or 3/32 further out (from the brake shoe face and/or the backing plate face) than mine. Putting a 1/8"+ wad of strip caulk on the shoe face and the backing plate lip yields no compression after torquing down the drum. Adding 3/32" worth of washers to space the drum out further doesn't help either.

Tom P. suggested that the new drums may be out of round slightly but they seem to work ok when we install one on Dino's car. I made strips with magic marker across the shoe face of the drum plus the drum surfaces that the shoe edges and backing plates would make contact, tightened the drum up and forced the drum to rotate with the resistance. The only place that shows interference on the drum is about 1/2" inboard on the face of the shoe. I may just try a different set of shoes and see if that makes a difference somehow (even though mine measure 2.08" wide).

So I'm still stumped but won't be able to get back to my car for a few more weeks at which time I'm going to start all over fresh and retrace all of my steps, measurements and ideas.

In the meantime, thanks again to all and I'll keep you posted.

Jerry M