Questions on key knock-outs for judging

[Terry M.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Mike,

Are the rail codes, E & H, on your keys stamped like in one of these first two photos?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]118482[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]118483[/ATTACH]

Or are the letters stamped at a 45 deg angle like in this next photo?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]118484[/ATTACH]

If yours have the E and H at 45 deg, then they are almost certainly replacement keys that never had the knockout present.

Gary

Gary
I know this is a commonly held belief, but it is not true.

My 1970 original keys have the letters at an angle. When I was researching keys and locks for the 1993 version of the 1970-1972' the first time we put information in what prior to that was called a Judging Manual, I called B &S (or Maybe it was called Stratec by then. I have called them several times. I tried to visit their plant when I was Editor, but they denied me for security reasons.). That first call was an interesting one to me. At that time they were in or near Milwaukie. They had to get me someone who was retired to call me back. Turned out that just signified that the key with the angle letter was not made by B & S, but by a contracted company. I don't know how common that practice was and I never thought to ask if it was for use when B & S Machenry was over worked or down for repairs, or like Carter manufactured Rochester carburetors, for short run models.

[Gary B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Terry,





Gary

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

There were 2 suppliers of keys/locks to GM in that period- B&S and Rochester Products. That is a result of a strike at B&S in 1949 when they were the only supplier and effectively shut down production at GM for lack of locks (sounds very familiar to recent shut down for lack of computer chips). So GM insisted that their own Rochester Products be licensed by B&S to produce the exact same parts so there would be a supply even if outside sources were not available. The keys through 1968 had "RP" embossed on the Rochester Products keys. In 1969 supplier logos were removed and it is thought that the perpendicular or horizontal position of the rail code indicated the supplier. I have seen and had a large number of original keys, cut and blanks, and have never seen one with a diagonal rail code with knockouts. Of course, that doesn't mean that there weren't any- I just have never seen one. All the research I have done indicates that these are from Stratec and not B&S.
Jeff

[Gary B.]

[Jeffrey S.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

If Pete told you it was original then I'm sure it was. As I said, I just never saw any.
Jeff

[Pat F.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Guys, here is some stuff on knockouts from my 1995 knockouts.
There is a document generated by GM that contains the knockout numbers for the keys. Supposably a set of the knockouts were maintained by the dealer so a new set could be made if the original was lost.

I am attaching a photo of the device that removed the knockouts.
Also, the corresponding knockouts that are listed in the above GM document.
Again, this is from a 1995.

[Michael L.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

My keys look like the former with the E and H vertical and not diagonal. After close inspection I believe my primary set are originals, based on their general appearance and the patina from being used for the last 50+ years, and my backup set are copies.

[Gary B.]

[Edward B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

The last time I got a new Corvette (1959), the dealer had already removed the knock-outs from the keys and supplied them on a separate key ring.

[Ray B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Steve Walker just did my 57 keys. Great job and charged $30 a key compared to others charging $300. 505 573 6363

[Gary B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Ray,

I think your cost comparison is likely not accurate. Are you saying that someone charges $300 per key? Many of us know of one vendor who charges $75 per key. But not $300.

Gary

[Ray B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

I erred it was $300 for two and the correct code. The entire point was to give the OP the contact info.

[Gary B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

While decluttering my Corvette parts inventory today I ran across a baggie with 8 matched sets (two each) of original GM E letter keys, cut and code stamped. All sets of keys are brand new. I’ve racked my brain to try to remember how I came into possession of these keys, to no avail. Since they are sets of two, cut and code stamped, I must have purchased them with new, GM service replacement locks. I just can’t recall why I did that, and why so many. Sad having a fading memory. In any case, it turns out three sets of these keys have the rail code stamped at 45 degrees. Those three sets of keys have key codes of the form nnJn and nnKn. I believe that keys with the letter J or K in the third code position are unique to 1973 or 1981. So, not a correct sequence for 1969 nor 1977, even though those years also used the E letter key.


Gary

IMG_7912.jpg

IMG_7913.jpg

IMG_7914.jpg

I just ran across an unused set of GM, H keyway keys with the 45 deg stamped rail code with code stamped knockouts. Versus my inventory of six sets of GM, unused, code stamped H letter keys with code stamped knockouts with the rail code stamped perpendicular to the key long axis. Once again, the key code format in the H keys in the photo of nnMn particularizes them to 1973 or 1981. I believe all 7 sets of H letter keys came with service replacement tire locks.

IMG_7915.jpg

[Terry M.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Gary

J and K keyway are 1970 locks and keys, Ask me how I know, but in fairness, because my memory is not much different than yours I confirmed by looking it up,

As the Chevrolet store where my friend in the Parts Department worked was closing all the key and lock parts, he called me and said, "Come and get it before we throw it out". I passed om the key cutter plyers and code books and lock internal parts, don't now think that was such a good move. But I found three 1970 ignition locks and two of the locks had my key code stamped on thee cylinder, He couldn't tell me why they had three of then much less why two had my code on them. He said "they have your code on them - they must be yours, and handed them to me. The rest of the cabnet, including boxes of un-cut keys and the items I turned down went in the dumpster and are in a long forgotten land fill somewhere. How often have aall of us said "If I only knew then what I know now..."?

[Gary B.]

Re: Questions on key knock-outs for judging

Gary

J and K keyway are 1970 locks and keys, Ask me how I know, but in fairness, because my memory is not much different than yours I confirmed by looking it up..."?