Stamp pad NM question

[Steve V.]

[Mark F.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Steve,

The term "numbers matching" can be troublesome.
Does the block casting date preceded the engine assembly date withing a reasonable timeframe? (a photo of the pad would be useful).
Same with carburetor date ?
Same with all the other "dated" engine components...alternator, distributor tag, manifolds, heads, etc.

I'm sure others will chime in, too...

[Owen L.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

I think the term "numbers matching" is a poorly defined one. It's not difficult to make any block match VIN numbers. I think a better term is "factory installed/original motor" (FI/OM) as opposed to non-original motor (NOM). NOM is a widely accepted term for the opposite of what I'm calling FI/OM.

Even with FI/OM, extremely few cases will be provably 100% certain that it is the original motor; you can only use terms like "highly likely", "a high certainty", and the like. The degree of certainty comes from all of what Mark commented above along with typical factory machining and appearances of those components.

As we know, anything can be reproduced, replaced, or reworked to appear as factory, so there has to be a degree of skepticism, no matter how tiny, that what we are looking at is not the FI/OM.

[Steve V.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

I think the term "numbers matching" is a poorly defined one. It's not difficult to make any block match VIN numbers. I think a better term is "factory installed/original motor" (FI/OM) as opposed to non-original motor (NOM). NOM is a widely accepted term for the opposite of what I'm calling FI/OM.

Even with FI/OM, extremely few cases will be provably 100% certain that it is the original motor; you can only use terms like "highly likely", "a high certainty", and the like. The degree of certainty comes from all of what Mark commented above along with typical factory machining and appearances of those components.

As we know, anything can be reproduced, replaced, or reworked to appear as factory, so there has to be a degree of skepticism, no matter how tiny, that what we are looking at is not the FI/OM.

[Roy S.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Before anyone uses the term "Matching Numbers" or "Numbers Matching" I challenge them to find a single definition of those terms published by any organization associated with the preservation and restoration of a classic automobile. If you find one I further challenge you to find agreement from a second organization or respected authority of that definition. Don't hold your breath while your looking.

I personally have never seen such a definition - it was/is a term created by the unscrupulous to lead the unknowing to believe something as fact when it is not, the term was created to imply something without saying anything. It implies originality without saying it and the unscrupulous love that it was exactly what they needed and they have benefitted from it for years at the expense of the unknowing.

In fact the engine pad number does not match the VIN it never has, it is a derivative of the VIN but it does not match the VIN.

In this world there are OEM engine pads (factory original), and non original engine pads which fall into many categories - such as, Restoration engine pads (attempts to replicate the OEM), Date code correct engines (may or may not have the replicated engine pad), and non original motors which can be any or all combinations you might imagine.

[Steven B.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Steve, numbers aside do the broach marks still appear and appear as factory? (Not belt sander, etc )

[Steve V.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Steve, numbers aside do the broach marks still appear and appear as factory? (Not belt sander, etc )

[Roy S.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Steve, post a picture of the pad or send it to me via private messenger or email. If enough is left I can tell you if the characters and juxtaposition are correct for the time frame.

[Mark F.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Wikipedia takes a crack at the definition with 7 references at the bottom...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_matching

Here's an excerpt:
The term "number matching" (or "matching numbers") is a term used in the collector car industry to describe the authenticity of collectible or investment quality cars. Number matching generally means that a particular car still contains its original major components or has major components that match exactly the major components the car had when it was new. These "major components" are not always agreed on.^[3]

lots of powerful, all-encompassing (and frequently misused) words (authenticity; exactly; original; major components)
entertaining read...caveat emptor...

[Steve V.]

[Roy S.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Chances are that a picture from your phone will be fine.

[Steve V.]

Re: Stamp pad NM question

Chances are that a picture from your phone will be fine.

Here you go.

IMG_2046.jpgIMG_2045.jpg

[Patrick B.]

[Roy S.]

[Steve V.]