Leno's Law, California SB 712 passes Transportation Committee - NCRS Discussion Boards

Leno's Law, California SB 712 passes Transportation Committee

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15610

    Leno's Law, California SB 712 passes Transportation Committee

    The vote was 9-2 in favor. WHOO-HOO! The Committee has 15 members, 11 Democrats and 4 Republicans. (There are 40 total members of the CA Senate.)

    I watched the meeting live. Jay Leno was there as a key witness along with SEMA president Mike Spagnola, and the bill's sponsor, Senator Grove did an excellent job of presenting and defending the bill and answering questions.

    As the meeting drew to a close I thought it had a good shot at being approved, and I was genuinely surprised and impressed by the overwhelming majority (82%) vote to approve.

    I think this thing may make it across the finish line!

    More to follow.

    Duke
  • Michael J.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • January 27, 2009
    • 7073

    #2
    Excellent! Congratulations, sometimes pressure does work.....
    Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

    Comment

    • Dave B.
      Frequent User
      • August 31, 2024
      • 48

      #3
      17 other states plus D.C. have adopted CA's emissions standards, including my state of Colorado. I sure hope these states follow this change quickly, if enacted.
      Dave
      Rocky Mountain Chapter
      '66 Coupe L72 Laguna Blue/Black

      Comment

      • Michael J.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • January 27, 2009
        • 7073

        #4
        Some pictures from SEMA of the celebration...... 489209743_18497461330044570_5020636572662889528_n.jpg 489755608_18497461318044570_5787935080235988754_n.jpg
        Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

        Comment

        • Bill C.
          Very Frequent User
          • May 31, 1989
          • 424

          #5
          Great news, lets see what Connecticut does

          Comment

          • Duke W.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • January 1, 1993
            • 15610

            #6
            Emission standards are not the same as emission testing. The EPA requires states to develop programs in so-called "non-attainment" areas - areas that don't meet the arbitrary "healthy" air quality standards that are more politically than scientifically determined.

            California has a "waiver" from the EPA to establish their own new vehicle tailpipe standards, and as you said, some other states have adopted these standards, but I'm not aware that any current new vehicles actually have different configurations to meet the California standards. This used to be the case in past decades. Now it's basically a paperwork exercise.

            Also, it's my understanding that the EPA is currently reviewing this "waiver" and may rescind it meaning all states will have the same new vehicle tailpipe standards with no delegation of authority to any state to establish their own.

            Most states that require emission testing for late model cars offer some kind of exemption for vintage cars and 25 years is common, but sometimes a special plate is required that has limited driving privileges like not to be used as a "daily driver" for commuting.

            California had a "rolling" 25-year exemption up to about 20 years ago when it was frozen at model year 1975. Since then virtually every gasoline powered vehicle (with a few exceptions) has required an emission test every two years. From '76 to '99 an ASM (acceleration simulation mode) test is required. The car is run on a chassis dynamometer at 15 and 25 MPH with more load than required to maintain speed on a level road, thus "simulating" moderate acceleration; 2000 and up cars just have an OBD II fault code check and some visual inspections.

            So there are ever fewer cars that require the ASM test. The equipment is old, becoming difficult/expensive to maintain, and it's becoming more and more difficult for '76 to '99 owners to find test stations that can do ASM testing, which is one justification for the bill.

            One other issue is the relationship between the new vehicle certification test and field testing. New vehicle emission certification involves a cold start at 70 degrees F, then a simulated drive on a chassis dyno that includes a shutoff/heat soak period, then a start up and completion of the simulated trip. It takes about 45 minutes. The entirety of the exhaust is collected in a bag and then the absolute emissions are measured in grams/per mile, and compared to the limits. BTW "trucks" , which includes so-called SUVs have looser standards than "passenger cars". Some areas do an I/M 240 test, which is an abbreviated 240 second version of the new vehicle certification test.

            California's ASM test measures proportion emissions, and heavier vehicles have lower standards, which is fair because all classes of vehicles have to meet the same absolute grams/per mile standards. I've had discussions with the California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repaire, which oversees the emission test program) over how they determine proportional standards that are a fair representation of the new vehicle absolute standards. They claim it's done by "statistical analysis" and allowing for normal wear and tear. I'm reminded of Mark Twain's quote: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"!

            So what's the emission test situation in Colorado, especially in the greater Denver area, which I assume is also a "non-attainment" area? What kind of emission test is required for pre-OBD II cars, and there any exemptions for vintage cars and what are the details?

            Duke

            Comment

            • Michael J.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • January 27, 2009
              • 7073

              #7
              California's waivers have been submitted to Congress for review.
              "California has been able to set stricter standards for the emission of hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen dioxide through more than a hundred different waivers that it has submitted to the federal agency (EPA) since 1967. Massachusetts adopted California’s vehicle emissions standards in 1990 after Congress allowed other states to adopt the approved standards. But, the Trump administration sent three of California’s most recent emissions waivers to Congress for review on February 14 under the Congressional Review Act, a statute that allows lawmakers to assess and overturn rules made by federal agencies. Sending the waivers to Congress for review is an unprecedented move, said Emily Green, a senior attorney at the Conservation Law Foundation. The Congressional Review Act has not previously been applied to these types of waivers in the past. The law allows congressional oversight over “rules” that federal agencies make​."

              If the House has its way, they will be overturned. But there are still legal cases that could be filed and the Senate has to approve.
              Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

              Comment

              • Duke W.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • January 1, 1993
                • 15610

                #8
                Originally posted by Michael Johnson (49879)
                Some pictures from SEMA of the celebration......
                I found it interesting that most of the cars in the cruise were pre-'75, which are already exempt, but kudos to them for the effort to support SB 712.

                The lady next to Jay is Senator Grove, author of SB712 and on the right is SEMA president Mike Spagnola.

                That's a great looking eighties vintage Trans-Am behind them. I wonder who owns it?

                I just checked the video archives, but yesterday's meeting video is not yet posted. I'll post the link in this thread when it becomes available.

                Thanks for posting that article on the current "California waiver" situation. Note that this affects new vehicle emission certification standards and is not directly relevant to field testing or Leno's Law.

                Duke

                Comment

                • Duke W.
                  Beyond Control Poster
                  • January 1, 1993
                  • 15610

                  #9
                  Video of the Transportation Committee meeting is now on line and available for viewing. If you want you can just choose to listen to the audio while you do other browsing.



                  BTW, the final vote count is actually 12 to 2 in favor, 86 percent! Apparently voting remained open after the committee went into recess allowing members not in attendance at the hearing to vote, which yielded one more yes vote.

                  By the time the committee gets to the vote, you should know who the two noes are or else you weren't paying attention.

                  The claim by the first "against" witness that a 1982 car emits 123 times the NOx of a 2025 model car is total BS based on the test results of my '76, '88, and '91 model cars... same for the claim by the second one about particulates, which are an issue with diesel-powered medium and heavy duty trucks, not cars and light duty trucks powered by gasoline engines.

                  One member of the committee offered a boatload of misinformation including both the amount of GHG (green house gas) emitted by the subject vehicles and the current emission test requirements for some post '75 cars. In fact, I talked to a CARB employee on the phone a few days ago about this, and he said flat out that the so-called exemptions are basically worthless. ALL post '75 vehicles have to meet tailpipe HC, CO, and NOx tailpipe standards for their year group and pass most other tests and inspections.

                  GHG, i.e. carbon dioxide, is a fixed function of fuel consumption so a late model 15 MPG SUV emits the same amount of CO2 as a 15 MPH Corvette, any model year.

                  Duke

                  Comment

                  • Dave B.
                    Frequent User
                    • August 31, 2024
                    • 48

                    #10
                    Duke, here is some information on Colorado's emissions testing. Note the testing is only required in the most heavily populated areas of the Front Range (Denver, Ft. Collins, Castle Rock and surrounding areas). Colorado Springs tests only diesel-powered vehicles.

                    Gas Emissions Requirements | Department of Revenue - Motor Vehicle

                    Combined Emissions Maps - Google My Maps

                    How it Works :: AirCare Colorado

                    As far as what vehicles are subject to emissions testing, how often and in what manner, to me seem identical to CA's smog requirements. Visual inspections are also the same, though I don't know if there are any differences in the limits for HC, CO or NOx.
                    Dave
                    Rocky Mountain Chapter
                    '66 Coupe L72 Laguna Blue/Black

                    Comment

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