First Oil Change after rebuild

[Joe P.]

I am about to do the first oil change.. the 283 solid lifter engine was rebult and driven for less than 100 miles and stored. I am planning on changing the soon. This will be the first oil change since the rebuild. Is there anything special that you guys can recommend?

How often do you recommend I change the oil? Is at the end of the season before storing for the winter acceptable assuming less than 5000 miles each season?

Since it gets pretty cold up here in Canada, not that I plan to drive the car when its too cold, but is the Rotella 15W-40 a good choice all year round..

Thanks
Joe

[Duke W.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Assuming the engine was rebuilt with "assembly lube" on the lifters and lobes and a bottle of EOS was added to CJ-4 oil I recommend a filter change after the initial cam break-in (assuming one was done) or after the first hour or two of service because the solids in assembly lube will be trapped by the filter and possibly clog it depending on how much was used.

The initial CJ-4 oil/EOS fill should be retained to about 1000-1500 miles, which should be beyond the break-in particle generation time frame. Then the oil and filter should be changed with a CJ-4 in a viscosity range that is suitable for the anticipated lowest temperature cold start.

15W-40 is suitable for cold starts down to 10-15 degrees F, or about -10 C. Colder storage temperatures of are no consequence as long as the engine is not started until temperatures reaches the above range or higher, and there is absolutely no need to start the engine during storage unless you actually want to drive the car.

I recommend oil changes at 5000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, however, if the engine only sees a few hundred miles in a season and it was not acculumated in short trips and the oil still appears clean, no harm will come by running it another year.

The above recommendation may need modification if short trips (less than 30 minutes engine operating time per trip) is the predominate use mode. Also, road draft systems do not provide as good crankcase ventilation as PCV systems, and either of the above conditions will increase fuel dilution in the oil.

If the car is stored for the winter, change the oil just before winter storage, and you will be good to go in the spring for the entire driving season. The clock does not run on fresh oil during winter storage


Duke

[Joe P.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Duke, Thanks for the advice

Unfortunatly I dont know for sure if "assembly lube" was used or if a bottle of EOS was added, or if CJ-4 Oil was used.

The only thing I can remember is that the engine was primed with 2 litres of 10-30 oil, and the filter was full.

I am not sure if the engine oil was topped up or changed. The 60 was a project car and someone else did the engine work and install into the car.

So I am the lucky person who got to finish the project and am now trying to figure out what best option is going forward..

Joe...

[Chuck S.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

At this point, assembly lube being used or not has pretty well already been answered if the engine has 100 miles on it...it's highly likely assembly lube was used, but you still don't know if the filter has been changed.

If you can't determine what kind of oil is the engine, if the filter was changed after cam break-in, or IF EOS was added, the shortest course to compliance with Duke's advice is to drain the oil, change the filter, and refill with fresh CJ-4 oil plus a bottle of EOS. I'm not sure if EOS alone is enough to clog the filter (DUKE can add more here), but if you want to be on the safe side, change the FILTER ONLY another couple of hours operation following the change, and top off with the same CJ-4 oil. Oil, filters, and EOS are cheap insurance to establish a base condition you know.

Drive the car another 1000-1500 miles, then change the oil and filter again WITHOUT adding EOS. After that change, you will be set for 5000 miles or one year, or longer if only a few hundred miles are driven annually with few short trips.

[Duke W.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Most "assembly lubes" have MoS2, which is a solid, and the filter will trap most of it as it washes through the engine.

Also, various research over the years indicates that new engines can generate a lot of particles in addition to any paticles that remain in the engine such as metal chips and core sand. Most of this will be washed through and trapped by the filter within minutes or a few hours of engine operation, which is why I recommend a filter change after initial break-in or a couple of hours of run time at most.

Particle generation and remaining particle flushing declines rapidly with every hour of operation, but it's best to leave the ZDDP rich initial fill of CJ-4/EOS in the engine until the breakin process is essentially complete, and something in the range of 500-1500 miles should be sufficient.

Duke

[Chuck S.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Joe, Duke is saying the EOS alone should not clog the filter.

However, you still don't know where you are currently regarding the filter or the oil...Personally, I would change the oil and filter now, and add a bottle of EOS for the full, complete "break-in" of the engine.

If the car is driveable, you should try to get the next 1000-1500 miles out of the way during the Spring-Summer driving season. Then, when you do your winter storage oil change as Duke recommended, you'll be set for regular changes thereafter at 5000 miles or one year.

Thanks for the info, Duke...I'm sure you've said it before, but I made a copy anyway.

[Christopher B.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Great post, I have learned a lot, but have a couple of questions. What is CJ-4/EOS? And is the break in period and technique the same for a hydraulic lifter car?

I know I use the Rotella in my car because of Duke!

[Jeff A.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

I was told by my local Chevy parts man that the old EOS has been discontinued, soon to be reformulated. Does anyone know if the new formulation is (will be) as good as the old, and is anyone aware of the differences?
Thanks!
Jeff

[Duke W.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Great post, I have learned a lot, but have a couple of questions. What is CJ-4/EOS? And is the break in period and technique the same for a hydraulic lifter car?

I know I use the Rotella in my car because of Duke!

Rotella? I recall hearing that word... CJ-4? EOS? Now I bet the archives are just full of information on those two subjects.

Duke

[Chuck S.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Great post, I have learned a lot, but have a couple of questions. What is CJ-4/EOS? And is the break in period and technique the same for a hydraulic lifter car?

I know I use the Rotella in my car because of Duke!

CJ-4 is the latest API spec for compression ignition engines; if you're buying Rotella, then the API spec for that oil is likely CJ-4.

I believe the previous version (CI-4?) had higher ZDDP content and is better, but Duke has said both specs are adequate for classic engines. Duke has made no distinction for lifter type, and his recommendations are assumed the same for both mechanical and hydraulic lifter engines.

EOS, Engine Oil Supplement, is General Motors oil additive formerly available through dealer parts departments. It has been historically added to engine oil after rebuilds to aid break-in, but the last bottle I bought was labeled only as an "assembly lubricant" to be used only during reassembly. I don't suppose it makes any difference how EOS gets into the oil...the important point is that it should run for 1000-1500 break-in miles. I understand EOS has been brought back after being discontinued, but I haven't tried to to confirm that. This subject was covered in depth a few months back; if the archives are up and completely operational, do an advanced search for posts by "Joe Lucia", and "EOS" as a key word.

[Jeff A.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

Engine Oil Supplement[/I], is General Motors oil additive formerly available through dealer parts departments. It has been historically added to engine oil after rebuilds to aid break-in, but the last bottle I bought was labeled only as an "assembly lubricant" to be used only during reassembly. I don't suppose it makes any difference how EOS gets into the oil...the important point is that it should run for 1000-1500 break-in miles. I understand EOS has been brought back after being discontinued, but I haven't tried to to confirm that. This subject was covered in depth a few months back; if the archives are up and completely operational, do an advanced search for posts by "Joe Lucia", and "EOS" as a key word.

Will do. Thanks!

[Duke W.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

The CJ-4 spec limits the mass fraction of P to 0.12%, which is 1200 PPM. This effectively limits the ZDDP content.

This is the typical level that was seen in both S and C category oils in the past, and now it's the limit for CJ-4 so the Internet myth the "new diesel oil doesn't have any ZDDP" is just typical Web hogwash.

The current SM spec limits P to 800 PPM in winter grades of 10W or less, but there is no guarantee that 20W-50 SM has more because only 600 PPM is specified as a lower limit and required to pass the SM wear tests, and since typical CJ-4s analyze at 1100-1200 ppm they are better for vintage engines that have sliding surface valvetrains.

The reason for the P limitation is to protect catalysts and support longer emission system warranties. The C-category limit was established because 2007 and later over-the-road HD diesel engines have catalysts, but more than the 800 ppm SM upper limit is necessary to pass the tougher CJ-4 wear tests.

One needs to understand that current API oils are formulated for current engines. Selecting the best oil for vintage engines requires an understanding of vintage engine design and engine oil formulation.

Modern engines with roller lifters and roller trunnion rockers don't need as much ZDDP at vintage engines, so SM if fine for modern engines, but CJ-4 is the best current commonly available engine oil for vintage engines.

Want to learn more?

Take the Fundamentals of Lubrication and CJ-4 courses at:
www.lubricantsuniversity.com

Downloand and print out the API engine oil quick reference guide:
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/EngineOilGuide2006.pdf

Download and read API document 1509 Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System plus Appendices E and F:
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/index.cfm

Just for laughs use the pdf search tool and find out how may times the word "synthetic" is mentioned in these documents, which are the foundation documents for motor oil specifications used by the entire auto and oil industries in the US and throughout the world.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

from a GM lubrication engineer

Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths (fig. 1). Here are some facts you may want to pass along to customers to help debunk the fiction behind these myths.

The Pennsylvania Crude Myth -- This myth is based on a misapplication of truth. In 1859, the first commercially successful oil well was drilled in Titusville, Pennsylvania (fig. 2).
A myth got started before World War II claiming that the only good oils were those made from pure Pennsylvania crude oil. At the time, only minimal refining was used to make engine oil from crude oil. Under these refining conditions, Pennsylvania crude oil made better engine oil than Texas crude or California crude. Today, with modern refining methods, almost any crude can be made into good engine oil.

Other engine oil myths are based on the notion that the new and the unfamiliar are somehow "bad."

The Detergent Oil Myth --The Synthetic Oil Myth -- Then there is the myth that new engine break-in will not occur with synthetic oils. This one was apparently started by an aircraft engine manufacturer who put out a bulletin that said so. The fact is that Mobil 1 synthetic oil has been the factory-fill for many thousands of engines. Clearly, they have broken in quite well, and that should put this one to rest.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) (fig. 3 and 4) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s (fig. 5).

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.
- Thanks to

[Duke W.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

I have some disagreement with the above, particularly the use of "starburst" (SM) oils for vintage engines. SM is not the best currently available oil formulation for vintage engines.

SM oils are formulated for modern "roller everything" valvetrain engines and catalyst aging protecton, but vintage engines have lots of sliding surfaces like flat-faced lifters and plain bearing rocker arms/shafts or stamped rocker arms/balls like vintage Chevrolet V-8s.

Over the years about 1200 ppm P evolved as the ideal amount of ZDDP for both light duty spark ignition and HD compression ignition engines, and CJ-4s analyze at about 1100-1200, with 1200 being the limit. SM, with a 800 ppm limit, is probably okay for most vintage engines if they don't have aftermarket gorilla valve springs. Use of SM oil doesn't mean your vintage engine is going to wear out prematurely, but the fact remains that CJ-4 is a better formulation for vintage engines and is the best commonly available current oil formulation for vintage engines.

The price is about the same, so why not use the best!

The photo of the GM Goodwrench oil label is interesting because it appears to violate the current acceptable use of the SM symbol according to the latest release of the API 1509 document that I referenced in a prior post. Quoting from page 8 of this document that anyone can download and read:

"Use of more than one API S service category at a time in the API Service Symbol is prohibited."

This prohibition is repeated again on page 21.

Duke

[Chuck S.]

Re: First Oil Change after rebuild

...The photo of the GM Goodwrench oil label is interesting because it appears to violate the current acceptable use of the SM symbol according to the latest release of the API 1509 document that I referenced in a prior post. Quoting from page 8 of this document that anyone can download and read:

"Use of more than one API S service category at a time in the API Service Symbol is prohibited."

This prohibition is repeated again on page 21...

API should turn their legal dogs loose on the General, and give them a taste of what it's like to be "hoisted" on the legal petard for violation of labeling trademarks.