Judging Question

[Nick M.]

How does one handle having an item judged differently at seperate events? In other words, if you are at one Regional meet and an item is judged to be correct and then at another Regional, the same item is judged to be incorrect, what are the owner's options? Conversely, if an item is judged incorrect, the item changed to what was reccomended by the judge and then subsequently judged incorrect, what are the options. if any?

[Chuck G.]

Re: Judging Question

None.

Welcome to the club.

Happens all the time. At one meet, you get dinged because you widget doesn't have a "M" logo. You change it, and at the next meet you get dinged for having the logo.

I know guys that carry 4 or 5 variations of a gas cap. The ask the judge "which one do you want today"?

Chuck

[Michael W.]

Re: Judging Question

Also keep in mind that this is a hobby populated overwhelmingly by amateur volunteers.

If that does not help, try a cold beer.

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Question

How does one handle having an item judged differently at seperate events? In other words, if you are at one Regional meet and an item is judged to be correct and then at another Regional, the same item is judged to be incorrect, what are the owner's options? Conversely, if an item is judged incorrect, the item changed to what was reccomended by the judge and then subsequently judged incorrect, what are the options. if any?

"none"!
Because each event is separate, I've seen the same part at different events judged right then wrong at many events on the same Corvette for years.
The part had the correct part# but wrong design, one judge knows the correct design while some judges don't and go by the part number .
That's is why the JM needs more pic's showing what a part looks like next to the part number .

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Question

(I know guys that carry 4 or 5 variations of a gas cap. The ask the judge "which one do you want today"? )

(If that does not help, try a cold beer.)

Good advice

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging Question

Chuck's reply is spot on.

A couple of tidbits -

- as my friend Gary Schisler taught me and demonstrated on my own car when it was judged, know the judging manual and what deductions you expect. Be prepared ahead of time for the "usual and expected" deductions, and know what % of the score you're going to lose. I'm thinking tires, exhaust, etc. But also know what it says about commonly replaced items that are available in reproduction.

- Don't be afraid to politely discuss the item with the judges when they review your score sheet after judging. I've done this both as owner and as judge.

- Don't be afraid to ask the Team Leader to review the deduction if you think it's worthwhile. I don't know that I would bother them over 1 or 2 points, but if there are a few points involved, give it a try.

- Don't change your car to satisfy one judge unless you know that they're correct. If you don't see proof in the JG and/or on original cars, don't be afraid to leave it alone.

Patrick

[William C.]

Re: Judging Question

One of the first things I do when "surprised" is to do my own research as to what actually is correct. Then you can alter your car, or not. As mentioned, judges are volunteers, and all are human. Some even make mistakes! Use the judging results as an opportunity to do some independent research, and learn more about your car and others. This does two things, firstly, it prevents you from spending money unnecessarily to fix what isn't broken, and it gives you the knowledge if you decide to make a change to do what you have confidence is correct based on your knowledge and investigation, not opinion or advertising. Lastly, remember it's hard to hurt a good car with "onesie-twosie" deducts. Research the big items first, then work down the list.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Judging Question

I've had a couple of items that were judged incorrect. I was able to do some quick research and got the decision reversed. The key was documentaion to substantiate your argument.

[Reba W.]

Re: Judging Question

"The key was documentaion to substantiate your argument."

And I might add be polite and calm in your discussion. Don't rant and tell the judge how dumb he/she is. (been there and received that)

The appeal procedure is outlined in the Owner's Advisory that the judging chair should send to each entrant.

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging Question

"The key was documentaion to substantiate your argument."

And I might add be polite and calm in your discussion. Don't rant and tell the judge how dumb he/she is. (been there and received that)

The appeal procedure is outlined in the Owner's Advisory that the judging chair should send to each entrant.

Reba and Stephen both have excellent comments. When I prepped my 72 for its first judging I photocopied the judging sheets and did multiple self-judging events at home. I had issues with the then current 1970-72 TIM & JG on a couple of items (JM since changed). I did some basic research and found several photographic examples that backed up my claims that my car was correct and the JM incorrect. When I got dinged minor points for the variation, my photographs of other cars exhibiting the same variations allowed the team leader to overule the judges.

Other than that, two other comments really hit the nail on the head. The judges are unpaid volunteers and, if all else fails, have a beer.

And, when it is all over, take your car out for a drive and remember why you own a Corvette.

Gary

[Gerard Q.]

Re: Judging Question

And, when it is all over, take your car out for a drive and remember why you own a Corvette.
Gary

Best advise of all.

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Question

How do you comment on the JM of any year Corvette today?, the JM is the JM.
Right or wrong concerning a part. As many have said, we have a on going issue.
I don't see an argument over the correct part numbers's issue in the JM BUT design (what the part should look like) from the oil pan to the air cleaner .If a part don't have a #number on it then it comes down to design (what it should look like) .That is the problem , with out the owner's pic's of many other Corvettes having the same design part or documentation which most parts don't have SHOWING what the part looks like ,where does that leave the owner and how to prove it.
The only answer in my mind is showing a Pic. Of the part in question having a part number or not on it in the JM. That way no argument as to what it should look like. Is this to simple a thought??

[Gary S.]

Re: Judging Question

How do you comment on the JM of any year Corvette today?, the JM is the JM.
Right or wrong concerning a part. As many have said, we have a on going issue.
I don't see an argument over the correct part numbers's issue in the JM BUT design (what the part should look like) from the oil pan to the air cleaner .If a part don't have a #number on it then it comes down to design (what it should look like) .That is the problem , with out the owner's pic's of many other Corvettes having the same design part or documentation which most parts don't have SHOWING what the part looks like ,where does that leave the owner and how to prove it.
The only answer in my mind is showing a Pic. Of the part in question having a part number or not on it in the JM. That way no argument as to what it should look like. Is this to simple a thought??

Roy,
The JG is a "work in progress" and continually changes based on input from the NCRS group as a whole. For instance, I commented a few years ago on the part numbers for 1972 seat belts. Based on photos in various books, I contacted Reba and others. I showed them photos in books and of two original owner 72s with the supposed incorrect seat belt part numbers, that matched my car. A couple of years ago, the JG changed to reflect the changes in part numbers.

Gary

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Question

Roy,
The JG is a "work in progress" and continually changes based on input from the NCRS group as a whole. For instance, I commented a few years ago on the part numbers for 1972 seat belts. Based on photos in various books, I contacted Reba and others. I showed them photos in books and of two original owner 72s with the supposed incorrect seat belt part numbers, that matched my car. A couple of years ago, the JG changed to reflect the changes in part numbers.

Gary

Gary that's just what I'm saying pic's, the JM needs pic's along with the part number, ( a pic. is worth a Thousand words)

[Nick M.]

Re: Judging Question

All good comments. Thanks to all. I think I'll have that beer now!