Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

[Greg F.]

I recently had my front end aligned on my 71. They didn't do a four wheel alignment. I got the alignment because it was pulling and when I rotated my tires, I noticed the inside tread was heavily worn on the right front. I moved this tire to the right rear. I never noticed the top side of the wheel/tire leaning in so much until today. It's odd because I've always loved the fact my tires were so vertical and I notice this after the alignment and rotation:

1. Can this be due to the tread being so worn on the inner tread or possibly because I didn't get a four wheel alignment?

2. What other reasons would cause the camber to be off? Worn Yokes?

3. By not doing the complete 4 wheel alignment; what can this cause?


Thanks.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

I recently had my front end aligned on my 71. They didn't do a four wheel alignment. I got the alignment because it was pulling and when I rotated my tires, I noticed the inside tread was heavily worn on the right front. I moved this tire to the right rear. I never noticed the top side of the wheel/tire leaning in so much until today. It's odd because I've always loved the fact my tires were so vertical and I notice this after the alignment and rotation:

1. Can this be due to the tread being so worn on the inner tread or possibly because I didn't get a four wheel alignment?

2. What other reasons would cause the camber to be off? Worn Yokes?

3. By not doing the complete 4 wheel alignment; what can this cause?


Thanks.

No way worn tread or not getting 4 way is really going to affect rear alignment. It may be an illusion. If not you need to check the rear.

[Joe L.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

I recently had my front end aligned on my 71. They didn't do a four wheel alignment. I got the alignment because it was pulling and when I rotated my tires, I noticed the inside tread was heavily worn on the right front. I moved this tire to the right rear. I never noticed the top side of the wheel/tire leaning in so much until today. It's odd because I've always loved the fact my tires were so vertical and I notice this after the alignment and rotation:

1. Can this be due to the tread being so worn on the inner tread or possibly because I didn't get a four wheel alignment?

2. What other reasons would cause the camber to be off? Worn Yokes?

3. By not doing the complete 4 wheel alignment; what can this cause?


Thanks.

Greg-----


You can get a rough check on rear camber by placing a level across the wheel VERTICALLY with the suspension normalized (i.e. the car has been moved on the wheels for at least 50 feet, or so, and not had a wheel raised subsequently). The bubble should be just about centered on the OUTER line (i.e. rather than centered between the lines). The problem with the level is that it will not tell you how far off the camber is; it will only tell you if it's about right.

The above has to be done on a level surface, of course.

[Ray G.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Hello;
Echo Joe.
Also if the tire is worn to the point that the tread is gone and there is just a smooth rubber surface on the inner or outer edge the tire will create more drag (because there is more rubber on the ground) and push/pull the tire toe-in/toe-out caster/camber to the extreme the rubber suspension parts will allow.
Badly worn tires will affect alignment and pulling one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Ray

[Joe C.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

I recently had my front end aligned on my 71. They didn't do a four wheel alignment. I got the alignment because it was pulling and when I rotated my tires, I noticed the inside tread was heavily worn on the right front. I moved this tire to the right rear. I never noticed the top side of the wheel/tire leaning in so much until today. It's odd because I've always loved the fact my tires were so vertical and I notice this after the alignment and rotation:

1. Can this be due to the tread being so worn on the inner tread or possibly because I didn't get a four wheel alignment?

2. What other reasons would cause the camber to be off? Worn Yokes?

3. By not doing the complete 4 wheel alignment; what can this cause?


Thanks.

Agree with Joe on the camber check, with four caveats:

1. Car must be on level grade, and especially level athwart.
2. Car must be loaded normally, except for driver/passenger.
3. Tire pressure should be checked first.
4. Last but NOT LEAST. Level must compensate for the bulge on the bottom of the tire. This is especially true of radials. I like to place the level above the bulge, or off to the side.

I have been checking my alignment like this for years, and rarely use an alignment shop. Tire wear is always even.

Use zero camber all around, unless you autocross, in which case you'll want at least 4 degrees negative
camber.

Iffen ya'll race "roundyround" then you'll all want posteev caimber own the inboard tar.

Joe

[Greg F.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Greg-----

Thanks Joe. I'll check this. It's odd that it happened this fast. I had the alignment / rotation done about 2 months ago. I've driven the car about 25 miles since (haven't got out much these days!). I know Corvettes are prone to this, so I was always impressed by mine. If the camber is off, what is the typical cause of this? A worn yoke or are ther other parts I should consider?

EDIT: I just checked with the level. My garage floor is perfectly level. The bubble is not centered on that line. It is about 3/4 outside. The top of the tire is leaning too far inward. What would the most common problem be?

Thanks again and I appreciate you insight,
Greg

You can get a rough check on rear camber by placing a level across the wheel VERTICALLY with the suspension normalized (i.e. the car has been moved on the wheels for at least 50 feet, or so, and not had a wheel raised subsequently). The bubble should be just about centered on the OUTER line (i.e. rather than centered between the lines). The problem with the level is that it will not tell you how far off the camber is; it will only tell you if it's about right.

The above has to be done on a level surface, of course.

Thanks Joe. I'll check this. It's odd that it happened this fast. I had the alignment / rotation done about 2 months ago. I've driven the car about 25 miles since (haven't got out much these days!). I know Corvettes are prone to this, so I was always impressed by mine. If the camber is off, what is the typical cause of this? A worn yoke or are ther other parts I should consider?

Thanks again and I appreciate you insight,
Greg

[Greg F.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Joe - I made an edit to my first response to you as I checked with the level. I wanted to make sure you saw it.

Thanks,
Greg

[Michael M.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Check here:

http://http://www.lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vettetech_files/How%20to%20Set%20Rear%20Camber.pdf

Have fun!

[Greg F.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Check here:

http://http://www.lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vettetech_files/How%20to%20Set%20Rear%20Camber.pdf

Have fun!

Michael,

I tried correcting the link you attached. I tried removing one of the "http's" and just using www.ibfun.com/corvette, but not luck. Can you resend?

Thank you.

[Greg F.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Hello;
Echo Joe.
Also if the tire is worn to the point that the tread is gone and there is just a smooth rubber surface on the inner or outer edge the tire will create more drag (because there is more rubber on the ground) and push/pull the tire toe-in/toe-out caster/camber to the extreme the rubber suspension parts will allow.
Badly worn tires will affect alignment and pulling one way or the other.
Hope this helps.
Ray

Ray,

Thanks for the insight. I'm still a little confused. After checking with a level, the left rear is perfect according to Joe's suggestion. The right rear (the one with the worn inside tread) is leaning to far in. Can this be caused by the tread on the tire or is it usually something with the suspension parts. I originally thought it was due to the tire as it wasn't like this before the rotation. Sorry to be a pest but I have not experience in this area.

Thanks

[Duke W.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

I've been using an inclinometer (about twenty bucks at any hardware/tool store) and a tape measure to align all my cars for 25 years. Most home garage floors are sufficiently level to do the job.

It sounds like your RR camber is off, but who knows how much without a calibrated measuring tool. Adjusting rear camber is covered in the appropriate year service manual.

The only issue with aligning any IRS car is determining how the rear toe is distributed between the two sides, and it must be as close to equal as possible.

The best way to get it checked is on a modern four-wheel alignment machine with a tech who knows what he's doing.

Any time an IRS car is aligned by a shop it should be a four wheel job done on a four wheel alignment machine.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Agree with Joe on the camber check, with four caveats:

1. Car must be on level grade, and especially level athwart.
2. Car must be loaded normally, except for driver/passenger.
3. Tire pressure should be checked first.
4. Last but NOT LEAST. Level must compensate for the bulge on the bottom of the tire. This is especially true of radials. I like to place the level above the bulge, or off to the side.

I have been checking my alignment like this for years, and rarely use an alignment shop. Tire wear is always even.

Use zero camber all around, unless you autocross, in which case you'll want at least 4 degrees negative
camber.

Iffen ya'll race "roundyround" then you'll all want posteev caimber own the inboard tar.

Joe

Joe-----


I don't use the level across the TIRE. That would cause other problems such as the "bulge" you describe. I use the level on the WHEEL only. One way of doing it is with a short level as pictured here. A better way is with a longer level set just inside the bead of the rim. It is usually necessary to use equal size blocks taped to the level to make this work. This is how I usually do it but I couldn't find my longer level at the moment.

[Joe L.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Thanks Joe. I'll check this. It's odd that it happened this fast. I had the alignment / rotation done about 2 months ago. I've driven the car about 25 miles since (haven't got out much these days!). I know Corvettes are prone to this, so I was always impressed by mine. If the camber is off, what is the typical cause of this? A worn yoke or are ther other parts I should consider?

Thanks again and I appreciate you insight,
Greg

Greg-----


The most likely cause of incorrect caster is wear on the strut rod bushings. That's, by far, the main cause of it. Other problems such as yoke axle wear could be involved, too, but I'd go with the most common cause first. Even if you have some bushing wear, a camber adjustment may be all you need now. When you can't get the camber right at the limit of adjustment, then you need to look into replacing the strut rod bushings.

[Joe C.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Joe-----


I don't use the level across the TIRE. That would cause other problems such as the "bulge" you describe. I use the level on the WHEEL only. One way of doing it is with a short level as pictured here. A better way is with a longer level set just inside the bead of the rim. It is usually necessary to use equal size blocks taped to the level to make this work. This is how I usually do it but I couldn't find my longer level at the moment.

Joe,

Not for you. Just to make everybody (not necessarily you) understand that the measurements have to be done carefully.

If one needs (why?) to know the "degree" measure, then that's easy enough to do by using geometry : Tan X = opp/adj
Just why one needs to know the angle, is anybody's guess. Just dial it in to obtain zero camber (except as noted above).

Toe can be measured by using long straight rods. Somewhat more diff than camber measurement, but do-able with patience.

Caster angle.............well, that's only done by an alighnment shop.

Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: Rear Camber / Alignment Questions

Agree with Joe on the camber check, with four caveats:

1. Car must be on level grade, and especially level athwart.
2. Car must be loaded normally, except for driver/passenger.
3. Tire pressure should be checked first.
4. Last but NOT LEAST. Level must compensate for the bulge on the bottom of the tire. This is especially true of radials. I like to place the level above the bulge, or off to the side.

I have been checking my alignment like this for years, and rarely use an alignment shop. Tire wear is always even.

Use zero camber all around, unless you autocross, in which case you'll want at least 4 degrees negative
camber.

Iffen ya'll race "roundyround" then you'll all want posteev caimber own the inboard tar.

Joe

Joe and Greg-----


Here's another way to check and adjust camber for both front and rear wheels and also adjust caster for front wheels. It's the means I plan to use from now on. You have to remove a few lug nuts for clearance to install this MAGNETIC tool, but that's no problem; you're not going to drive the car with the lug nuts off.

The main problem with this is that camber adjustment is still somewhat of a trial and error thing without an alignment machine. That's because you can't actually make the adjustment with the wheels on the ground. I've tried "grease plates" (two pieces of thin sheet steel with grease between them to allow the wheel to move while adjusting camber), but they didn't work too well for me. So, it's trial-and-error which is a hassle because you have to normalize the suspension between each attempt.