'66 Starter brace alignment issue

[Clem Z.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Clem & Joe,

If this is the wrong brace why does a supply manual suggest only one type of brace for my 327cid engine for years 64-67? Are you then suggesting that if the year of brace I currently have is correct then it is for a different size engine? How about a totally different car?
This still doesn't explain why the bolts are SO FAR off alignment that I cannot possibly get the brace on when BEFORE removal and rebuild I at least had both ends attached.

i would try and loosen the starter "thru" bolts and see if the end the brace goes on can be rotated. i know the other end of of the case is "pinned" so it can not be rotated but i am not sure about the brace end. been a long time,years, since i did any work with starters

[Paul B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Hi Kevin,
If the brace that you had previously fit, but now does not, the rebuild shop probably replaced the snout on your starter. The threaded holes in snout are what determine the placement of the long through bolts at the back end, you can not rotate the housing on the snout to change this.
I recently bought a correctly dated starter for my '62 300 powerglide and had it rebuilt. He changed the snout due to a crack, and the new one looked identical to me. However when I installed it, the edge of the snout opening was resting against the teeth on the flexplate? When I compared it to the old one that had been on the car, I saw that even though the opening was the same shape, size, etc... its clocking, or rotation, was different by several degrees? I tore it down and reused my old snout, and now everything lines up as God and the General intended.

Paul

[Joe L.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Clem & Joe,

If this is the wrong brace why does a supply manual suggest only one type of brace for my 327cid engine for years 64-67? Are you then suggesting that if the year of brace I currently have is correct then it is for a different size engine? How about a totally different car?
This still doesn't explain why the bolts are SO FAR off alignment that I cannot possibly get the brace on when BEFORE removal and rebuild I at least had both ends attached.

Kevin-----


Only 1 part number was used for L64-68 Corvette small block starter braces. There are at least 2 others that will work, though. However, there EXIST many other braces that won't work. We do not know which you have. As has been mentioned, did the one you currently have EVER work (i.e. is it the one you took off the car)? A photo of it might also be helpful.

[Joe L.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Hi Kevin,
If the brace that you had previously fit, but now does not, the rebuild shop probably replaced the snout on your starter. The threaded holes in snout are what determine the placement of the long through bolts at the back end, you can not rotate the housing on the snout to change this.
I recently bought a correctly dated starter for my '62 300 powerglide and had it rebuilt. He changed the snout due to a crack, and the new one looked identical to me. However when I installed it, the edge of the snout opening was resting against the teeth on the flexplate? When I compared it to the old one that had been on the car, I saw that even though the opening was the same shape, size, etc... its clocking, or rotation, was different by several degrees? I tore it down and reused my old snout, and now everything lines up as God and the General intended.

Paul

Paul-----


Now that's interesting. I was not aware that there was any functional difference in the 153 tooth starter noses used over the years. However, there were at least 3 different part numbers and one complicated "historical irregularity" that's always baffled me.

Do you still have the starter nose that wouldn't work for you and can you post a photo of the through bolt mounting face?

[Paul B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Paul-----


Now that's interesting. I was not aware that there was any functional difference in the 153 tooth starter noses used over the years. However, there were at least 3 different part numbers and one complicated "historical irregularity" that's always baffled me.

Do you still have the starter nose that wouldn't work for you and can you post a photo of the through bolt mounting face?

Hi Joe,
Yes I still have it, I'll try and grab a snap or two for you tonight.

Paul

[Nick M.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Joe
Can you tell me how best to bench test the starter from my 63? It starts to engage the flywheel but after about 1-3 seconds, just clicks. Almost seems like a bad ground or maybe the solenoid. I have removed the starter from the car but am unsure as to how to determine the root of the problem. Also, where do you suggest I buy the parts I may need to rebuild it?

[Paul B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Hi again Joe,
Here are a couple of pics for you, let me know if you want a different angle. Please disregard the spare parts, I can remove them if you want a cleaner image.

All the best,

Paul

[Joe L.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Hi again Joe,
Here are a couple of pics for you, let me know if you want a different angle. Please disregard the spare parts, I can remove them if you want a cleaner image.

All the best,

Paul

Paul-----


The nose looks to be the correct nose for the application. Can you remove the nose and show the rear face (i.e. the surface where the tappings are for the through bolts?

[Joe L.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Joe
Can you tell me how best to bench test the starter from my 63? It starts to engage the flywheel but after about 1-3 seconds, just clicks. Almost seems like a bad ground or maybe the solenoid. I have removed the starter from the car but am unsure as to how to determine the root of the problem. Also, where do you suggest I buy the parts I may need to rebuild it?

Nick-----


I think the best way to test it is to take it to an automotive parts store that has a "test bench" for starters or to a starter overhaul shop that has such equipment. A fair number of parts stores have test equipment.

Most of the internal parts for starters are GM and Delco discontinued. Some are available in the aftermarket. My recommendation is this:

1) If you don't care about the "numbers" and "dates" and assuming your starter does not currently have correct "numbers" and dates", simply go down and purchase a high quality rebuilt starter. CERTAIN Delco re-manufactured starters are high quality rebuilds. Also, high quality are Bosch and A-1 Cardone;

2) If you have an original starter, go down and purchase the above and transfer all the internal parts to your starter frame. It's hard to transfer the bushings, though. The end plate contains the bushing and it's virtually impossible to transfer. So, I would use the end plate from the re-manufactured unit even if it's slightly different in configuration from your original. If the starter nose is identical to yours, you could just transfer the nose from the re-manufactured unit to yours; it will have a new bushing. Otherwise, replace your starter nose bushing with a GM #1923907. This bushing is still available for about $3 and it's much easier to just install a new one than try to remove the new one from the re-manufactured starter's nose and install it in yours.

[Paul B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Paul-----
The nose looks to be the correct nose for the application. Can you remove the nose and show the rear face (i.e. the surface where the tappings are for the through bolts?

I should be able to for you tomorrow Joe. It did not work on my '62 with original motor and powerglide. When compared to the one that was on the car, the opening on this one is rotated several degrees to the right (view from the front). The left side of the mouth was right in the teeth of the flexplate, the good one shows the same gap on either side.
My car is on stands at the moment, I'll hold this one to the one on the car to compare clocking on the housing bolts.

Paul

[Kevin B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

That could be a possibility. However, I carefully wrote down the part number (?) stamped into the motor's housing and specifically told the counter person - who also happened to be the co-owner of the shop - that I wanted as much originality retained as possible. That said, when I picked up the starter I examined the numbers on the unit, all were the same. The counter person - also a shop co-owner - indicated that the drive had a burr on it he didn't like, so he replaced it (thus dismantling it). Also, he replaced the brace's hold down bolt, plus the solenoid.

[Kevin B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

The brace I currently have was able to be bolted on, albeit not a good fit as one end was always slightly twisted. No amount of twisting this time around will bring both ends into alignment enough for bolts to connect. It is still therefore possible that I have an incorrect brace, but also something else seems different since I picked up my starter.

[Kevin B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

I viewed some started braces for my car/year/engine at Corvette Central. (Not an endorsement merely just an example.) I found a few types of braces, and the one I have looks exactly like the one listed for 327-cid 64-67 yr. Mine definitely does not look like either the 396 or 427 braces.

Is there more than one way to have (incorrectly) mount the starter? I also contacted the rebuild shop today. They (of course) deny any mis-handling in re-assembly, and indicated only one way to put on housing. However, from all the discussions I've seen above, there seems to be a lack on consensus within this site on whether or not the housing can be turned so as to bring the end bolt around to meet the starter brace. Still confused...

[Timothy B.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

Kevin,
Is it possible the brace is bent? If you can post a picture someone may be able to help.

[Joe L.]

Re: '66 Starter brace alignment issue

I viewed some started braces for my car/year/engine at Corvette Central. (Not an endorsement merely just an example.) I found a few types of braces, and the one I have looks exactly like the one listed for 327-cid 64-67 yr. Mine definitely does not look like either the 396 or 427 braces.

Is there more than one way to have (incorrectly) mount the starter? I also contacted the rebuild shop today. They (of course) deny any mis-handling in re-assembly, and indicated only one way to put on housing. However, from all the discussions I've seen above, there seems to be a lack on consensus within this site on whether or not the housing can be turned so as to bring the end bolt around to meet the starter brace. Still confused...

Kevin-----


The big block braces are much shorter. However, there are other small block braces that are similar. You MAY have a small block brace but not the CORRECT small block brace.

The shop is correct; the starter nose can only be mounted in one position. That's for sure. However, it may be possible to rotate it slightly. There is some "play" in the whole thing. It's not a lot, though. The way to check this out after you have the starter mounted to the block and properly torqued, is to loosen the 2 through bolts. Don't back them out completely; just LOOSEN them. Then, see if you can rotate the starter frame enough to reposition the the bolt with the extension for the brace. I doubt you'll be able to, but it's worth a try. It's quite easy to do.

There is no way that I know of to improperly mount the starter. There are just 2 bolts that attach it to the block. In your case, if the starter is for a small block application, it should have an aluminum nose and use 1 short and 1 long starter-to-block mounting bolts.