Does anyone know why there are different starter model numbers for the 1969 427 cars? Model number 1108400 is for 427 applications except with the M22 option. Starter model #1108351 is for 427 applications with the M22 transmission. My 86k mile 69 car has a real m-22 trans and a 1108400 starter? Thanks.
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Lynn-----
You didn't mention which engine option you have. However, here's the deal:
For the 1969 model year, the M-22 transmission was supposed to be available only with L-88 and ZL-1 applications. The number which GM reported were installed (101) is entirely consistent with the fact that 116 L-88s and 2 ZL-1's were built (some were THM-400 so, presumably, that accounts for the difference). Were M-22's installed in any other 1969 Corvettes with other 427 engine options? I'm VERY skeptical. For one thing, the M-22 was not even shown on the regular Corvette order form; it had to be filled in by hand.
The reason for the reference to the "with M-22" as far as the starter goes does not really have anything to do with the transmission. It has to do the the installed flywheel and bellhousing. Since all L-88/ZL-1 with 4 speed transmission used a 12-3/4" flywheel and GM #3858403 bellhousing AND since all L-88/ZL-1 with manual transmissions were supposed to have the M-22 and no others were supposed to have it, that's how M-22 gets "connected" with the 1108351 starter. This starter is configured for use with a 12-3/4" flywheel and it's a "high torque" starter as otherwise required.
All other 1969 427 engine options were equipped with a 14" flywheel and GM #3899621 bellhousing. This combination required a starter configured like the 1108400. ASSUMING THAT ANY OTHER 427 ENGINE OPTION WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT WITH AN M-22 TRANSMISSION (and, I REALLY DOUBT that any other were so equipped), then the 1108400 starter would still have been used. That's because all other 427 engine options were shipped from Tonawanda with a 14" flywheel and GM #3899621 bellhousing. An M-22 transmission COULD HAVE BEEN installed on such an engine (although I don't think that any originally were) and that would result in a Corvette with an M-22 and GM #1108400 starter.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: 1969 starter codes
Joe,
I see the logic in your response and it is a puzzle to me also. This car is an L89 ordered by the Hanley Dawson dealership in Detroit Mich. The original owner purchased the car Jan 6, 1969 and sold it at 86000 miles. I purchased the car with 86681 miles. I am in contact with the original owner and have a window sticker with the M22 option at $260.40. Will do some more investigation and get back to you. This car is going to be judged and I want it right. Thanks,Comment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Lynn----
All I can say is the only cars that were supposed to have M-22 were L-88/ZL-1. However, like anything else, I suppose "exceptions" can occur. If you have an original window sticker which shows that option for the car, I suppose that should be documentation enough.
Assuming that the engine has an "LP" or "LU" suffix code, then it would have been equipped with a 14" flywheel, a GM #3899621 bellhousing, and would have used the 1108400 starter. There's absolutely no way it could have used an 1108351 starter; it's a functional impossibility. The fact that the reference says "except M-22" with respect to the 1108400 starter does not apply to your car because your car is equipped in a manner that was not envisioned when that description was adopted.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Joe,
The engine has the LU code, the bellhousing is 3899621, the starter is 1108400, and has the 14" flywheel. The only thing that does not make sense is the M22?? I sent you another post regarding the Hanley dawson dealership. Thanks, for the infor. Lynn SchwebachComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Lynn-----
"LU" is the code for an L-89 with MA-6 HD clutch. However, M-22 was not part of the MA-6 set-up. Normally, MA-6 was used in conjunction with an M-21.
However, MA-6 would have used the 3899621 bellhousing and 1108400 starter.
Does MA-6 show on the window sticker?In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Joe,
No MA-6 on the window sticker, however when I took this car apart (5 years ago) I believe it had the duel disk clutch. Pitched it (stupid) because we were going to hot rod the car rather than restore it. Has anyone had any luck getting info from GM production records?Comment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Lynn----
That's VERY strange that MA-6 was not on the window sticker, especially if the engine was "LU" coded and you also verified that it did originally have MA-6. I suppose it's possible that there were "extra" "LU" coded engines around the engine bay at St. Louis and no "LP" coded ones. So, maybe they just "gave away" the MA-6 for this car. If the engine option had been on the window sticker, it would have had a charge associated with it. Plus, the window sticker was "keyed" to the order number and probably could not have been changed, anyway. This is all just a guess, though.
Nevertheless, the M-22 would have been no way associated with the MA-6.
Does the M-22 that's in the car have the VIN derivative stamped on the case AND does the case have the GM #3925660 casting number WITH drain plug? That's one reasonably accurate way of determining if the transmission is original to the car.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
No, but I may have an M22 trans?!!Comment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
thanks for the info very helpfullComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
in 69 big blocks, is the nose painted black with the rest of the starter , or is that left aluminum ?Comment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Tom----
The only 1969 big blocks that used a starter with an aluminum nose were 1969 L-88 and ZL-1 with 4 speed. All others used a cast iron nose. In general, those with a cast iron nose had the nose painted, but only the portion external to the bellhousing, as-installed.
I'm not sure how the noses were painted for the L-88/ZL-1 with aluminum noses.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
any body no how the L88/ZL1 M22 starter ,aluminum nose cone were painted black or not painted at all ?
thanks TomComment
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Re: 1969 starter codes
Terry or drew any info ??
from the expertsComment
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