NCRS Judging Guidelines

[Ted S.]

Recently I was asked to assist in judging at a couple of chapter meets and I had my '58 Flight judged. These experience have allowed me to gain some insight into the judging process from both perspectives. In both cases where I judged, the cars were '57s.

My question is how much liberty does a judge have on what he "knows is correct" verses what is stated in the TM&JG? For example, I believe the front shocks on a base '57 should be spiraled (I don't claim to be an expert on '57s so don't take this literally). The judging manual is silent on the front shocks but indicates spiraled shocks on the rear. Should the '57 take a deduct if it does not have spiral shocks even though the TM&JG doesn't state that?

My understanding is that if the TM&JG didn't state that it should have spiral shocks the judge can not take a deduction, is this correct?

Please take this in the spirit of gaining knowledge. Thanks, Ted

[Joel F.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

Ted,

I'm not a Master level judge and won't claim to be an expert on the process, but I am trying to get as involved as my life will allow. In my opinion, the JG's are simply a guide, and will never have the entire cannon of knowledge on these cars. That said, I think if you know something is not correct and not mentioned specifically, then by all means take the deduction. If you think something might be wrong, talk to your team lead. If you have a conflict with what is printed in the JG, again it is probably best to talk to your team lead. Sometimes there are known issues in the JGs but it takes time and a critical mass of changes to warrant a new edition.

Joel

[Terry M.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

Of course you should have a fellow judge to talk it over with, but sometimes at chapter meets the ranks are thin. If you are pretty sure of your product knowledge, but not confident enough to take a deduction -- you can always make a comment on the score sheet without a point deduction. That way the owner can do his own research and decide what course to follow. If you say and write nothing you are really doing the owner a dis-service. We presume the owner brought the car for a fair evaluation. As judges it is our obligation to provide that.

From the owner's standpoint -- if you disagree with a judges' opinion you can follow the appeal process at the meet (team leader, if there is one, then meet judging chair). If that fails they can do due diligence after the meet is over. A few points more or less are not the end of the earth, as we know it.

[John H.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

My understanding is that if the TM&JG didn't state that it should have spiral shocks the judge can not take a deduction, is this correct? Ted

Ted -

The TM&JG is a Guide, not the end-all font of knowledge; there's a fair amount of personal knowledge involved in judging, particularly when the JG hasn't been revised for a long time. If the JG had all the details, you'd need a handle to carry it.

[Roy B.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

Of course you should have a fellow judge to talk it over with, but sometimes at chapter meets the ranks are thin. If you are pretty sure of your product knowledge, but not confident enough to take a deduction -- you can always make a comment on the score sheet without a point deduction. That way the owner can do his own research and decide what course to follow. If you say and write nothing you are really doing the owner a dis-service. We presume the owner brought the car for a fair evaluation. As judges it is our obligation to provide that.

From the owner's standpoint -- if you disagree with a judges' opinion you can follow the appeal process at the meet (team leader, if there is one, then meet judging chair). If that fails they can do due diligence after the meet is over. A few points more or less are not the end of the earth, as we know it.

Liberty none!
My understanding is that if the TM&JG didn't state that it should have spiral shocks the judge can not take a deduction, is this correct? YES=BUT!

I've judged so many 53 to 57 I cant count them. BUT (you) follow the JM (right or wrong) then add a note that the 57 shocks should have spiral shocks which is correct.
I write and post pic's of correct parts ,and when judging I inform a person after judging what is correct if the JM is wrong as most good judges do!
I'll never live to see the JM cover all correct parts of any year Corvette. Few vary good older judges will NOT deduct any points if he sees the original part
No matter what the JM states.

[Alan S.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

Ted,
Your question and comments are very interesting.
I see even the most experienced judges taking serious looks at cars they haven't seen before, especially original cars, in order to add to their brain's data base.
I think what's so good about being able to judge with an experienced judge...is you get to hear his comments and observations as you go through the items on the judging sheets. The Judging Guide is just the beginning. New owners at the Chapter level especially seem to really appreciate the notes that are made on the sheets.
Regards,
Alan

[Roy B.]

Re: NCRS Judging Guidelines

I good old judge's brain data base is ten times the thickness of a JM.