What... My engine is wrong?

[Rod M.]

I'm new at this whole NCRS thing and when I purchased my car, it came with an extra 283 engine block (i was told was correct for the car)... however

I just find out that my car was born on Dec 23rd 1960 (thanks to you all), but the block I have for the car was born Dec 26th 1960...... this hurts. I bought the car thinking I was going to pull the current 327 out and put the correct 283 back in after I had it rebuilt. Now I have this issue of the wrong date code.

If I choose to build the engine correctly and all things being correct but the date by a few day, what will this do to my points rating. If you had this situation what would you do?

[David K.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Well, how did the seller put it to you........I mean, that it was correct for your car. Was he talking casting number, casting date or that it was a 283? Of course not being part of the transaction, I have no way to determine the intent. I would at least try to have him find a good block of the correct dates, if that is what he was referring to. I can't tell you about points. Others here can help with that.

[Richard M.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Rod, It's unfortunate that this turns out now.....but would you not have purchased the car because of that. Try not to get too down on yourself about it. It's happened to many before, and will in the future. That's what this place is for.....to help.

I own a 59, with a 519 block from a 61. Cast J200(Oct 20, 60) assy FI026CU(Flint Oct 26, 270hp,manual). When I bought the car 22 years ago I knew it wasn't a 59 block(It also had the vin derivative of 61# xx24xx), and I was ok with that. In 95 I opted to rebuild it and not get the 59 dated block. It's fine the way it is.

Where am I going with this........
I had my car judged at the Regional in Kissimmee in January. With the correct block, wrong cast date/assy stamp, I still flighted. Just missed 2nd flight with a 84.1%. Yes I got bumped points because cast date was wrong, but all other mechanical items get checked for correctness(Carbs, gen, intake, exh manifold, etc). There are soooooo many other things on the car to get right!

If you want a 100% car and it means that much to you then you must get the right stuff. If you want to have fun, make it all look right,ok, except for a few digits on the block, then do it up the way it is. Going to a judged event knowing that you'll get a hit on the cast date thing ahead of time will make it easier for you. It is just one piece of the puzzle. I learned so much when I got my car judged. That was my reason to go.....learn, look, and have fun.

I think if you do it this way you'll sleep better.

IMHO,
Rich

[Chuck S.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Rod, the answer to your question will depend on your goals for the car, and how much you want to spend. Before I sunk several thousand into an engine rebuild, the block would have to be VERY CLOSE to optimum according to NCRS judging standards. Otherwise, why bother?...drive it with the 327.

Buy the Judging Reference Manual from the NCRS store...there is an extensive discussion of the various levels of "correctness" for engines. Basically, it has to do with (1) the originality of the cylinder case casting number, (2) the appropriateness of the engine casting date(s) for the car (within six months before car build), (3) originality of the pad surface, and finally (4) the actual originality of the stamps on the pad.

At each level of this hierarchy, you get a predetermined number of judging points; if you are able to get everything "correct" except that the engine is from another car (or truck!), you will get the lion's share of the judging points.

What Rich is trying to tell you is that no one single item in all the thousands will make or break the car for Top Flight, although engine originality and paint will play a very big part. Judging is a formula...the points you lose in one area you may be able to make up in another. The next piece of wisdom you will gain in this process is that some judging points are much cheaper than others because of part availability etc...you'll learn to pick the low hanging fruit first.

Good luck, and welcome to the NCRS.

[Harmon C.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Dec. 26 for a cast date is a date very close to a holiday. Are you sure you are reading it correct? If it is like some cast dates they are very hard to read.

[David K.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Good point Lyle. I know the cast dates on my block have some serious slag or whatever kind cast iron gobbering them up. It is really impossible to determine the actual day of the casting. I often wondered how a judge would view that! I guess there is one way to find out.

Could the "6" be a "O"?

[Noel K.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Rod,

I think you'll lose 350 points for the incorrect casting date on the block. As I recall, the block is judged by casting number, casting date, deck correctness ( numbers with VIN and HP type ) and then finally evidence of broach marks in that order.

If the casting date is off, I think you'll lose the whole assigned number of points. or at least half of the 350. The first time my car was judged I lost all 350 points and I still received a second flight designation even though I had some other issues with my 1965 ( wrong exhaust, seats, etc). It will be very difficult to get a top flight award if you lose all 350 points, but 2nd flight should be easily attainable if the rest of the car is correct.

As mentioned before, obtain a copy of the Judging Manual and read the section on the engine block. That should clarify the questions.

Good luck in your search

[Chuck S.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

...I think you'll lose 350 points for the incorrect casting date on the block. As I recall, the block is judged by casting number, casting date, deck correctness ( numbers with VIN and HP type ) and then finally evidence of broach marks in that order.

If the casting date is off, I think you'll lose the whole assigned number of points. or at least half of the 350. The first time my car was judged I lost all 350 points and I still received a second flight designation even though I had some other issues with my 1965 ( wrong exhaust, seats, etc)...

No...Incorrect casting NUMBER and case configuration, NOT DATE is judged first in Section A!!! Casting date is judged in Section B, then the pad and pad stamps in Section C.

If you were nicked 350 points for having the wrong casting date, you should have been standing on some judge's shoulder's telling him to get his stuff together. If you're having a car judged, memorizing the Judging Reference Manual and TIM&JG might not be a bad plan...just to insure everyone knows what they're doing.

[Joseph S.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Rod what is the assembly stamp on the front pad of the block. This will help determine the correct casting date.

[John H.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

A correct casting number and incorrect casting date will get a 175-point deduction, and block judging stops there.

[Rod M.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

I was told the date code L260 means Dec 26, 1960 by one of the earlier replies. However after reading the Nolan's restoration book, it was mentioned that the letters on the block, heads and transmission relate to the month. It also says that the letter "I" was never used because it was close to the numbrer 1. A=Jan B=Feb....(if you omit "I") then L=Nov.

so if this is true then my block is correct and was casted 30 days before my car assembly.

[Rod M.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

I was told the date code L260 means Dec 26, 1960 by one of the earlier replies. However after reading the Nolan's restoration book, it was mentioned that the letters on the block, heads and transmission relate to the month. It also says that the letter "I" was never used because it was close to the numbrer 1. A=Jan B=Feb....(if you omit "I") then L=Nov.

J = Sept????

[Joseph S.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Rod, Did you ever check the assembly date on the front pad. That will also determine if the engine was assembled before the car was built.

Joe

[David D.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

I was told the date code L260 means Dec 26, 1960 by one of the earlier replies. However after reading the Nolan's restoration book, it was mentioned that the letters on the block, heads and transmission relate to the month. It also says that the letter "I" was never used because it was close to the numbrer 1. A=Jan B=Feb....(if you omit "I") then L=Nov.

so if this is true then my block is correct and was casted 30 days before my car assembly.

I'm not 100% for C1's but I thought, the "I" never being used, only related to 'electronic' parts. (i.e. Alternator, Distributor etc...)

Engine blocks, heads, etc....I believe ALL used the "I" to designate the month.

[Jack H.]

Re: What... My engine is wrong?

Interpreting the rule (I code not used) is a bit tricky. In general, 'I' wasn't used when date codes were physically stamped but WAS used when codes were embossed (e.g. an insert to the mold).

Also, on a code like that mentioned "L260", you need to look for relative separation between the digits. The sequence L 26 0 would indicate December 26th, 1960 for a Saginaw cast block. The sequence "L 2 60" would point to December 2nd, 1960 for a Tonawanda cast block....