65 Tire judging help.....

[Jim V.]

At BG and evaluating tire choice....ISSUES! Please Advise.

I am trying to wisely apply my limited dollars on a dollar per point basis. So....do these options make sense and which would you recommend?

1. Keep what I have (Non OE 215/75/R15WSW).
Deduct 60 pt (30 orig. + 30 cond!.) Crazy harsh deduction due to .1inch or so oversized diameter!!!!!!!!! True or not true?
Cost=$0

2. Current day OEM brand radial 215/70/R15.
Deduct 18.
Cost=$400. Cost/pt saved $9.5/pt

2. Firestone Bias Coker Deluxe Champion 1" WSW.
Deduct 3?
Cost $750 Cost/pt saved $13.8

3. Goodrich Bias Coker Silvertown 7/8" WSW.
Deduct 3?
Cost $750 Cost/pt saved $13.8

4. Goodyear Bias from Kelsey Tire Power Cushion Gold stripe.
Deduct 3?
Cost $1000 Cost/pt saved $17.5

Thanks!
JimV

[Bob B.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Jim,

It depends on what you want to do with your car. Why do you want to go through the judging process at all if you are happy with your car as is? Are you restoring it? If so, then that will require certain things. If you just want to get Top Flight, then very few even big deductions will make or break that. I had a set of perfectly good Sears tires on my car that I had to replace with OEM. Now that I'm done judging, the Sears and the OEM sets are in the attic and I am running radials. But I wanted to go for Duntov.

Big deductions seem harsh, but the point of NCRS is restoration. It might not seem fair to lose a lot of points on the wrong tires, but not doing so is not fair to the ones who go the extra mile and put them on. Just like paint, we see a lot of superb basecoat/clearcoat paint jobs. They want all the points at NCRS and then they want to take it to some concourse judging and get first place there, too. This is not fair to the guy who uses lacquer and so doesn't have show paint.

I'd decide where you want to go with the car and get tires that fits with this.

Bob

[Jim V.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Thanks Bob!... The only reason I am considering the bias is for Top Flight reasons with this car.....

Looking for technical feedback between the repro options....and clarity on the deduction policy. Obviously one can't compare originality issues between paint and 43 year old safety issues like rubber tires.

[Dick W.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

The BFG and the Firestones will have more than a three point deduction. I do not have my Judging Reference Guide available to me right now for the actural deduction. I believe that the point deduct will be close to the radial tire deduction.

[Jim V.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Dick...thanks I have the JRG and need expertise to comment on that exact issue. How do the BFG, Firestone, GY judge relative to deviation from original? All DOT bias repros will get the 3 pt deduct, question is which bias repro brands get the 6,8,12,18...deduct

[John D.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Dick, I typically receive a 3 pt deduct for running 4 repro Goodyears on the 63. Spare is original. I wouldn't buy a repo unless it was the correct brand. That is just throwing needed points away. You must save those good points in case you get nailed for having hiway robbery deducts. heeeee. NCRS judging is extremely lenient on repro tires.
If I was Jim I would go for the tires with the smallest deduct for flight. 18 points is way too much of a hit on just tires. JD

[Jim V.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

JD...I consistently hear the GY are in the 3 pt catagory. Can someone comment on the Coker BFG and Firestone WSW deducts? The GY are a fair bit more pricey.

[John D.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

JD...I consistently hear the GY are in the 3 pt catagory. Can someone comment on the Coker BFG and Firestone WSW deducts? The GY are a fair bit more pricey.

Go the the NCRS tent and take a peek in the 65 judging manual since I assume u don't have urs with u. As mentioned if you select the right brand and size from the repro guys the deduct is peanuts. Think of the shipping charges you will save if they have them at the show. My advise is punt and get the correct ones for the extra money. You will be happier later on. Make them an offer they can't refuse. Business isn't that great for all. Good luck, John

[Dick W.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Jim, I am shooting from the hip (or my recliner as it may be) but I believe that the tread design, the construction, and the nomenclature on the sidewalls differ from the originals. The GY's are 3 points and you will have to read the JRG to see what the deducts are for these deviations, but I believe it is the maximum deduction for OEM brand tires.

[Bob B.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Jim,

Guess you'll have to bit the bullet and fork over some cash. I wish my car had been in worse condition before I started. I replaced a perfectly good windshield, seat covers and a lot of other stuff.

But your idea of affixing a dollar value to points is an excellent one. Some people spend a ton on original material for their glove box and forget that the cigarette lighter doesn't work for ops!

Bob

[Jim V.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Thanks guys... Yeah...got all the manuals....they don't comment on which repro is more or less correct than the next....and understandably so.

Any experiences judges out there who care to publicly share their opinions /wisdom/knowledge/$.02 or lack thereof?

ps...too late to pull the trigger at the Coker tent....

And yep...replacing good stuff with crappy correct stuff....is a bit tough for this old boy...

JimV

[Harmon C.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

If you want a Top Flight the easy way drive a few hundred miles to a chapter meet. You will enjoy the ride pick up the extra driving ponits that will take care of any tire deduction. At 45 points for every hundred miles you drive you have a good chance to drive right up to that Top Flight.

[Page C.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Hi Jim,
The 215/75/R15 size tire is NOT a correct size for the 1965 according to the 1965 Judging Guide. It list a 195/75/R15 or 205/75/R15 as the 2 acceptable sizes for service replacement radials.
The 1966 & 1967 Judging Guides list 205/75/R15 or 215/70/R15 as the 2 acceptable sizes for radials.
These are the acceptable sizes for the service replacement tires that also have been made by an OEM manufacture and have the correct whitewall or redline widths. They would then fall into the standard deduction guidelines for a 60% deduct.
If you used the 215/75/R15, I would think it would be a total deduct as it would fall into the "all others" or those with whitewalls mounted inboard classification since there are no partial deducts in the standard deduct guidelines.
Regards,
Page Campbell

[Jim V.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Page....
Yeah....at 100% originality deduct that would mean the required 100% condition deduct as well...... Yikes.....60 pts! That is flat crazy for a service replacement safety item.

Thanks

[John D.]

Re: 65 Tire judging help.....

Page....
Yeah....at 100% originality deduct that would mean the required 100% condition deduct as well...... Yikes.....60 pts! That is flat crazy for a service replacement safety item.

Thanks

Jim,Supposed to prepare your car the way it came from St. Louis or at the very least the way the dealer prepared it. If you want to load the car up with service replacement crap parts that is your call. But if so then don't expect it to score well. Maybe attend some judging schools first to see what the scoop is. Read the judging standards book and judging manuals. Then go out and purchase your parts. Will save you many thousands of bucks in the long run. Also save you from having a repro mobile and doing the car over again. Unless that is what you want and then it is your business. John D.