1960 engine question

[Thomas H.]

A good friend of mine bought a 1960 "dirty garage find" that has not been on the road since 1985. In the course of trying to get it running, we ran into some difficulties. The first being that it was impossible to turn the engine over by hand. The cylinders were soaked with lubricant, rocker arms loosened, but still we were unable to turn it with the flywheel wrench. Figuring that the cylinder walls were rusted, we decided to pull the engine today. Sure enough the cylinders are rusted preventing the pistons from moving.

Upon closer inspection of a few of the cylinders, there appears to be deeper areas of rust, about the size of a nickel, that line up with where the cylinder head bolts are.

Attached are pics of cylinders 1 and 3. You can see the heavier rust areas in cylinder 1, but in cylinder 3 the area is silver, not rusted.

What would cause this to happen? More importantly, do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with just boring the cylinders?

Thanks,
Tom

[Bob B.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Tom,

My unedumacated guess is that the head bolts were overtorqued and the cylinders slightly warped. Looks like those spots didn't get as evenly rubbed by the rings as the rest of the cylinder walls. Doesn't look too bad and I would think that boring out the cylinders would be the answer, but the machine shop could tell you for sure. Just don't let them grind off the pad while working on the block!

Bob

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Bob,

Interesting, as I was removing the head bolts I thought they seemed a bit on the tight side, but I chalked it up to getting older!

This would have to have happened at the factory, since we know for a fact that this is the first time the engine has been opened up.

The machine shop I use is run by a guy that has had Corvettes so he is very careful when it comes to saving numbers.......

Thanks,
Tom

[Stewart A.]

Re: 1960 engine question

HHHmmmm you didn't mention if the block was the original one that came with the car. If it is keep it and take it to a reputable machine shop just to see how far that rust has penatrated into the sleeves. It don't look good !! If it isn't a numbers match block I would personally go and find a 283 block with standard bore and start with that. It looks like you have after market pistons in there so it could be a different block. Check it out and let this forum know if it's original there are some smart people on this site (not me) that can steer you in the correct path.
Stewy

[Bob B.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Tom,

Would that be you or the car getting older?!

The best indication of an engine that hasn't been apart is the presence of the GM tabs on the front and rear intake manifold seals (see pics). Did that car have them? If so, save the pieces with the tabs, cut away a bit of the new seals and glue them back in when the engine goes back together.

Also, keep a lookout for paint stick markings on the engine, such as on the back of the heads or on the cylinder case.

Bob

[Stewart A.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Can someone tell me does the original pistons on a 283 have reliefs in the tops of them. The only way to determine if it's the correct block for the car if the numbers match can you get them off the plate and let the forum know the numbers to determine if it's the correct block. funny things happen over 50 years.

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Stewart,

Yes it is the original engine. Here is the pad, as best I could get when we were first looking at the car.



The pistons have GM part numbers (as well as "GM") on them on the inside of the skirts. Look at the skirt on the lower right for the GM.




Thanks,
Tom

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Bob,

You know, I may have missed these during disassembly since everything was caked in grease. I remember the gasket looking the same, I'll go check the gasket for tabs.

Thanks for the heads up!

Tom

PS: the original owner kept a log book of everything he did to the car and we didn't see any major engine work listed. He did change the trrans to a four speed though..........

[Bob B.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Tom,

Looks like an original engine, but the question is whether it's been apart. The gaskets have square tabs on them and you should keep them, if original, to match during reassembly. I was talking about the rubber intake manifold seals on the front and rear of the intake.

Bob

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Bob,

The gaskets we have. I misunderstood a bit, I was thinking that the tabs were a separate item from the gasket. We'll take a look at the gaskets for the tabs.

Tom

[Bob B.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Tom,

The gaskets are on either side of the intake manifold and are against the head. They are cut so that the edge follows the edge of the intake manifold. Each has a square tab made onto them that sticks out.

The intake manifold seals are rubber and are on the front and rear of the intake manifold between the ends of the manifold and the top of the block. If you take a look at the two pics I sent of the seals, you will see that the tab is made as part of the seal and that it sticks out and has GM on it.

Bob

[Stewart A.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Tom what does your I. d. plate read on it. It's on the door area or under the steering column. It looks like you have an original block there, it's a standard 230 hp motor thats what the CQ stands for 05 Month and the 19 day. I presume your build date is around the May 1960. I need a couple of other things to confirm it. First is your I.D plate and second is your castings on your block. The casting date is located at the right rear, top portion of the bellhousing or transmission mounting flange (oppositethe casting number). So far so good.

[Joe C.]

Re: 1960 engine question

A good friend of mine bought a 1960 "dirty garage find" that has not been on the road since 1985. In the course of trying to get it running, we ran into some difficulties. The first being that it was impossible to turn the engine over by hand. The cylinders were soaked with lubricant, rocker arms loosened, but still we were unable to turn it with the flywheel wrench. Figuring that the cylinder walls were rusted, we decided to pull the engine today. Sure enough the cylinders are rusted preventing the pistons from moving.

Upon closer inspection of a few of the cylinders, there appears to be deeper areas of rust, about the size of a nickel, that line up with where the cylinder head bolts are.

Attached are pics of cylinders 1 and 3. You can see the heavier rust areas in cylinder 1, but in cylinder 3 the area is silver, not rusted.

What would cause this to happen? More importantly, do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with just boring the cylinders?

Thanks,
Tom

That's caused by normal strain due to torquing of the head bolts. One good reason that more recently, engine blocks are now machined with a torque plate in place.
Over the years, the uneven ring wiping action showed up as different corrosion pattern.
Thanks for the great pictures, as a visual description of the phenomenon! I saved 'em.

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Stewart,

Attached is a picture from the plate on the steering column. I don't have a shot of the casting date, but the next time I'm over his house I'll get one.

Also another shot from the day I first saw the car in the "dirty garage"

[Thomas H.]

Re: 1960 engine question

Joe,

I find it interesting that the torque from the head bolts would be enough to distort the cylinder walls creating a pocket or dimple in the cylinder. Thanks for the input!

Tom