1960 engine question - NCRS Discussion Boards

1960 engine question

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Thomas H.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • August 31, 2005
    • 1053

    1960 engine question

    A good friend of mine bought a 1960 "dirty garage find" that has not been on the road since 1985. In the course of trying to get it running, we ran into some difficulties. The first being that it was impossible to turn the engine over by hand. The cylinders were soaked with lubricant, rocker arms loosened, but still we were unable to turn it with the flywheel wrench. Figuring that the cylinder walls were rusted, we decided to pull the engine today. Sure enough the cylinders are rusted preventing the pistons from moving.

    Upon closer inspection of a few of the cylinders, there appears to be deeper areas of rust, about the size of a nickel, that line up with where the cylinder head bolts are.

    Attached are pics of cylinders 1 and 3. You can see the heavier rust areas in cylinder 1, but in cylinder 3 the area is silver, not rusted.

    What would cause this to happen? More importantly, do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with just boring the cylinders?

    Thanks,
    Tom



    1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
    1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
    1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
    1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
    1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
    2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

    Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter
  • Bob B.
    Very Frequent User
    • March 1, 2003
    • 831

    #2
    Re: 1960 engine question

    Tom,

    My unedumacated guess is that the head bolts were overtorqued and the cylinders slightly warped. Looks like those spots didn't get as evenly rubbed by the rings as the rest of the cylinder walls. Doesn't look too bad and I would think that boring out the cylinders would be the answer, but the machine shop could tell you for sure. Just don't let them grind off the pad while working on the block!

    Bob

    Comment

    • Thomas H.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • August 31, 2005
      • 1053

      #3
      Re: 1960 engine question

      Bob,

      Interesting, as I was removing the head bolts I thought they seemed a bit on the tight side, but I chalked it up to getting older!

      This would have to have happened at the factory, since we know for a fact that this is the first time the engine has been opened up.

      The machine shop I use is run by a guy that has had Corvettes so he is very careful when it comes to saving numbers.......

      Thanks,
      Tom
      1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
      1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
      1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
      1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
      1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
      2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

      Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

      Comment

      • Stewart A.
        Expired
        • April 16, 2008
        • 1035

        #4
        Re: 1960 engine question

        HHHmmmm you didn't mention if the block was the original one that came with the car. If it is keep it and take it to a reputable machine shop just to see how far that rust has penatrated into the sleeves. It don't look good !! If it isn't a numbers match block I would personally go and find a 283 block with standard bore and start with that. It looks like you have after market pistons in there so it could be a different block. Check it out and let this forum know if it's original there are some smart people on this site (not me) that can steer you in the correct path.
        Stewy

        Comment

        • Bob B.
          Very Frequent User
          • March 1, 2003
          • 831

          #5
          Re: 1960 engine question

          Tom,

          Would that be you or the car getting older?!

          The best indication of an engine that hasn't been apart is the presence of the GM tabs on the front and rear intake manifold seals (see pics). Did that car have them? If so, save the pieces with the tabs, cut away a bit of the new seals and glue them back in when the engine goes back together.

          Also, keep a lookout for paint stick markings on the engine, such as on the back of the heads or on the cylinder case.

          Bob
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • Stewart A.
            Expired
            • April 16, 2008
            • 1035

            #6
            Re: 1960 engine question

            Can someone tell me does the original pistons on a 283 have reliefs in the tops of them. The only way to determine if it's the correct block for the car if the numbers match can you get them off the plate and let the forum know the numbers to determine if it's the correct block. funny things happen over 50 years.

            Comment

            • Thomas H.
              Extremely Frequent Poster
              • August 31, 2005
              • 1053

              #7
              Re: 1960 engine question

              Stewart,

              Yes it is the original engine. Here is the pad, as best I could get when we were first looking at the car.



              The pistons have GM part numbers (as well as "GM") on them on the inside of the skirts. Look at the skirt on the lower right for the GM.




              Thanks,
              Tom
              1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
              1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
              1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
              1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
              1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
              2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

              Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

              Comment

              • Thomas H.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • August 31, 2005
                • 1053

                #8
                Re: 1960 engine question

                Bob,

                You know, I may have missed these during disassembly since everything was caked in grease. I remember the gasket looking the same, I'll go check the gasket for tabs.

                Thanks for the heads up!

                Tom

                PS: the original owner kept a log book of everything he did to the car and we didn't see any major engine work listed. He did change the trrans to a four speed though..........
                1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
                1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
                1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
                1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
                1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
                2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

                Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

                Comment

                • Bob B.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • March 1, 2003
                  • 831

                  #9
                  Re: 1960 engine question

                  Tom,

                  Looks like an original engine, but the question is whether it's been apart. The gaskets have square tabs on them and you should keep them, if original, to match during reassembly. I was talking about the rubber intake manifold seals on the front and rear of the intake.

                  Bob

                  Comment

                  • Thomas H.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • August 31, 2005
                    • 1053

                    #10
                    Re: 1960 engine question

                    Bob,

                    The gaskets we have. I misunderstood a bit, I was thinking that the tabs were a separate item from the gasket. We'll take a look at the gaskets for the tabs.

                    Tom
                    1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
                    1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
                    1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
                    1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
                    1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
                    2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

                    Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

                    Comment

                    • Bob B.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • March 1, 2003
                      • 831

                      #11
                      Re: 1960 engine question

                      Tom,

                      The gaskets are on either side of the intake manifold and are against the head. They are cut so that the edge follows the edge of the intake manifold. Each has a square tab made onto them that sticks out.

                      The intake manifold seals are rubber and are on the front and rear of the intake manifold between the ends of the manifold and the top of the block. If you take a look at the two pics I sent of the seals, you will see that the tab is made as part of the seal and that it sticks out and has GM on it.

                      Bob

                      Comment

                      • Stewart A.
                        Expired
                        • April 16, 2008
                        • 1035

                        #12
                        Re: 1960 engine question

                        Tom what does your I. d. plate read on it. It's on the door area or under the steering column. It looks like you have an original block there, it's a standard 230 hp motor thats what the CQ stands for 05 Month and the 19 day. I presume your build date is around the May 1960. I need a couple of other things to confirm it. First is your I.D plate and second is your castings on your block. The casting date is located at the right rear, top portion of the bellhousing or transmission mounting flange (oppositethe casting number). So far so good.

                        Comment

                        • Joe C.
                          Expired
                          • August 31, 1999
                          • 4598

                          #13
                          Re: 1960 engine question

                          Originally posted by Thomas Hoyer (44463)
                          A good friend of mine bought a 1960 "dirty garage find" that has not been on the road since 1985. In the course of trying to get it running, we ran into some difficulties. The first being that it was impossible to turn the engine over by hand. The cylinders were soaked with lubricant, rocker arms loosened, but still we were unable to turn it with the flywheel wrench. Figuring that the cylinder walls were rusted, we decided to pull the engine today. Sure enough the cylinders are rusted preventing the pistons from moving.

                          Upon closer inspection of a few of the cylinders, there appears to be deeper areas of rust, about the size of a nickel, that line up with where the cylinder head bolts are.

                          Attached are pics of cylinders 1 and 3. You can see the heavier rust areas in cylinder 1, but in cylinder 3 the area is silver, not rusted.

                          What would cause this to happen? More importantly, do you think this is something that can be cleaned up with just boring the cylinders?

                          Thanks,
                          Tom



                          That's caused by normal strain due to torquing of the head bolts. One good reason that more recently, engine blocks are now machined with a torque plate in place.
                          Over the years, the uneven ring wiping action showed up as different corrosion pattern.
                          Thanks for the great pictures, as a visual description of the phenomenon! I saved 'em.

                          Comment

                          • Thomas H.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • August 31, 2005
                            • 1053

                            #14
                            Re: 1960 engine question

                            Stewart,

                            Attached is a picture from the plate on the steering column. I don't have a shot of the casting date, but the next time I'm over his house I'll get one.

                            Also another shot from the day I first saw the car in the "dirty garage"





                            1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
                            1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
                            1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
                            1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
                            1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
                            2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

                            Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

                            Comment

                            • Thomas H.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • August 31, 2005
                              • 1053

                              #15
                              Re: 1960 engine question

                              Joe,

                              I find it interesting that the torque from the head bolts would be enough to distort the cylinder walls creating a pocket or dimple in the cylinder. Thanks for the input!

                              Tom
                              1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
                              1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
                              1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
                              1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
                              1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
                              2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

                              Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

                              Comment

                              Working...

                              Debug Information

                              Searching...Please wait.
                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                              An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                              There are no results that meet this criteria.
                              Search Result for "|||"