1967 Kick Plate Screws

[Kirk M.]

Had my car judged this weekend for the first time. Went well. I had one question about the kick plate screws. It was mentioned that they should get "smaller" as one progresses forward. Is that correct and can someone explain what is exactly meant by that. Thanks.

Kirk

[Stephen L.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

I assume you are talking about the kickpanels covered with carpet.

I also had a deduct for this item on my 67. I argued my point with data from the AIM and the deduct was reversed. I also found an original 67 and the screws were all the same.

The 67 JG suggests 2 kinds of screws. This is a carryover from the 66 JG.

If you look at the AIM for 67 showing these kickpanels page (UPC 1 E1), you'll notice that the screws ARE all the same part number; symbol #8 4751359.

A note on this page says item #9 9417987 was removed and symbol #9 was replaced with symbol #8. Therefore all screws in these locations should be the same. (There could have been some carryover from 66 until supplies ran out on item #9)

If you look at the 1966 AIM, symbols #8 4751359 AND #9 9417987 are called out.

I believe the reason for this, as well as other "upgrades" to the 67 interior, came because GM reworked the interior eliminating the vinyl under the rear window, moving the e-brake handle to the console, changing the door panels, eliminate the right dash grab handle, and just doing a general cleanup.

[Kirk M.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Thanks. I got a set of original screws from a reputable dealer and was a little confused by the comment. However, still relatively new to the "field", I wasn't confident enough to question the deduct. Had a few other items that I thought were correct, but didn't question either. For example, my fan only has 4 rivets, as it should, for a car with AC. Lost a point or two for that. Anyway, just wanted to double-check on this one because I couldn't figure it out. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

Kirk

[Gerard F.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Kirk,

I agree with Steve's analysis above. I have a late 67 and all six of the kick panel screws are the same shoulder headed phillips screw. If you look in the 67 AIM there is a change noted fairly early on in production, which deleted the screw type for two of the screws and went to all the same.

However whether and when they made the change in the factory is unknown. The 67 JG calls out all six screws alike but alludes to examples of 4 of one type and 2 of the other type (phillips with cone shaped washer). I would think that both the six alike, and 4 and 2 should be accepted, if they are the correct type.

If you buy a set of repros, you will probably get the 4 and 2 types to match the majority of C2s. But beware of the shoulder headed type. Some repros just have a pan headed phillips with a flat washer in place of the original type shoulder headed phillips.

The reason I know this is that when I replaced my original carpet and kick panels, I went through at least two screw kits of repros. I just didn't like the look of the repro screws, so I just shined up my original screws and reused them.

[Kirk M.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Thanks Jerry, I too have several repro sets that I will have to check out. As I remember it, the originals I got appeared "bigger" than the repros on the car.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

I assume you are talking about the kickpanels covered with carpet.

I also had a deduct for this item on my 67. I argued my point with data from the AIM and the deduct was reversed. I also found an original 67 and the screws were all the same.

The 67 JG suggests 2 kinds of screws. This is a carryover from the 66 JG.

If you look at the AIM for 67 showing these kickpanels page (UPC 1 E1), you'll notice that the screws ARE all the same part number; symbol #8 4751359.

A note on this page says item #9 9417987 was removed and symbol #9 was replaced with symbol #8. Therefore all screws in these locations should be the same. (There could have been some carryover from 66 until supplies ran out on item #9)

If you look at the 1966 AIM, symbols #8 4751359 AND #9 9417987 are called out.

I agree with Steve's analysis above. I have a late 67 and all six of the kick panel screws are the same shoulder headed phillips screw. If you look in the 67 AIM there is a change noted fairly early on in production, which deleted the screw type for two of the screws and went to all the same.

However whether and when they made the change in the factory is unknown. The 67 JG calls out all six screws alike but alludes to examples of 4 of one type and 2 of the other type (phillips with cone shaped washer). I would think that both the six alike, and 4 and 2 should be accepted, if they are the correct type.

This is very interesting. I have read other comments about this in the archives, but I couldn't quite understand what was being referred to. This page in my AIM is not very clear, but after reading this Thread, now I understand.

In the Revision section at the bottom right on page UPC 1ASM - E1 it says:

Date: ? - 17 - 66
SYM: 1
Revision Record: 9417987 Screw ????????? Removed
Auth: 78868

The first number in the date looks like a "6", but that would be June of 1966, still during the 1966 model year. Is it an "8"?

Does anyone have a copy of this page (UPC 1ASM - E1) that is clear enough to clearly read the first number in the date, and whatever it says immediately after "9417987 Screw"?

[Stephen L.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

The AIM was revised during June of 1966 for the 1967 model year which began production in the July-August time frame. There were many small changes in the interior between 66 and 67, new E-brake system/location, deletion of the vinyl in the rear window area of a coupe, seat tracks and upolstery, and multiple screw types in the interior to reduce inventory... to name a few.

The AIM line I believe you are refering to notes the deletion of item #9... the screws in question which were replaced by item #8......
Look at the BM on this page and you'll note there is no part# next to item 9 with the square box.

[Gerard F.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Scott,

I think the date is 6-17-66 but I can't make out the number after Screw.

Here's a picture of the page with the changes circled:



Maybe someone with better eyes can make it out. Looks like a number to me. Maybe it is a changeorder reference?

Like I said above, just because an engineering change was made, it doesn't mean that it was immediately carried through to the factory.

It is interesting to note that on a 67, examples of both screw 8 and 9 (the one with the beveled washer) appear as the rearmost screw on the door panel. I had one type (9) on the driver side and the other (8) on the passenger side on my 67.

I would challenge anyone to find the callout of that rearmost doorpanel screw in the 67 AIM. You'll just find a very elaborate clip setup without the screw. But I've been wrong before

Thanks for taking the time to document these things. You are a lot like me.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

The AIM was revised during June of 1966 for the 1967 model year which began production in the July-August time frame. There were many small changes in the interior between 66 and 67, new E-brake system/location, deletion of the vinyl in the rear window area of a coupe, seat tracks and upolstery, and multiple screw types in the interior to reduce inventory... to name a few.

Hi Stephen,

I was aware of most of the changes you listed, but I did not know there had been many changes to the interior attaching hardware before. I have been using the new and more detailed 1966 TIM&JG (with pictures) to help fill in the blanks where the 1967 TIM&JG is silent, and then trying to verify that the '66 applies to the '67 in a given specific situation.

My '67 kick panel screws (car # 07873, Jan. 11 build) are a mixed bag. I have three of the chrome 'special' long screws with the wide heads and captive washers on each kick panel (similar in appearance to the radio panel screws), and three 'regular' chrome Philips screws of various lengths with beveled washers.

I'm guessing this car originally had the earlier "4 + 2" kick panel screw configuration, and two of the 'special' screws (one each side) were lost over time. Or used somewhere else that is more visible. These chrome kick panel screws with the "washer head" and captive washer reminded me of two screws that were in my Halo panel bag of screws. I checked them and they are identical, except one of the Halo panel screws is slightly longer, by about 1/16". The other Halo panel screw is the same length as the kick panel screw.

Pictures of the kick panel screws below, some are clearly incorrect, being of different lengths.

.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Scott,

I think the date is 6-17-66 but I can't make out the number after Screw.

Hi Jerry,

Your Assembly Manual appears to be clearer than mine. I understand the 6-17-66 now, but the numbers after "9417987 Screw" in line #1 of the Revision Record are practically unreadable on mine.

Maybe someone with better eyes can make it out. Looks like a number to me. Maybe it is a changeorder reference?

When I saw the AIM page you posted, it looked clear enough to resemble the format in Line 5 in the Revision Record, specifically the part that appears to say "(.540 LBS. IN)". Revision Record line 1 in the picture you posted looks like it reads "2-12 LBS", probably followed by " . IN) ". Is it just a torque rating? Does the 1966 AIM list a torque rating for Item 9 (9417987) for comparison?

I enlarged the page of my AIM (see below, the portion in question underlined in red) and it doesn't help much. It still doesn't look as clear as yours, and doesn't even look like it says "2-12 LBS" on mine. It looks more like "6-15 LBS.", but I think it is a torque rating, whatever it says.

It is interesting to note that on a 67, examples of both screw 8 and 9 (the one with the beveled washer) appear as the rearmost screw on the door panel. I had one type (9) on the driver side and the other (8) on the passenger side on my 67.

I'll have to check that too!

[Stephen L.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Scott, I didn't mean there were "many" changes to the attachment hardware. I meant that the designers were trying to reduce the variety of inventoried hardware where possible. Item #9 fell into this catagory.

[Gerard F.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Hi Jerry,

Your Assembly Manual appears to be clearer than mine. I understand the 6-17-66 now, but the numbers after "9417987 Screw" in line #1 of the Revision Record are practically unreadable on mine.



When I saw the AIM page you posted, it looked clear enough to resemble the format in Line 5 in the Revision Record, specifically the part that appears to say "(.540 LBS. IN)". Revision Record line 1 in the picture you posted looks like it reads "2-12 LBS", probably followed by " . IN) ". Is it just a torque rating? Does the 1966 AIM list a torque rating for Item 9 (9417987) for comparison?

I enlarged the page of my AIM (see below, the portion in question underlined in red) and it doesn't help much. It still doesn't look as clear as yours, and doesn't even look like it says "2-12 LBS" on mine. It looks more like "6-15 LBS.", but I think it is a torque rating, whatever it says.



I'll have to check that too!

Scott,

Maybe the draftsman had a few beers before the shift and confused IN.LBS with PLACES. Only kidding, but it seems like the location is where one would indicate the number of deletions, not the torque. The torque is indicated in the note with the triangle for the screw, which is 10-15 LBS.IN in triangle note 2 for the particular screw.

Now to increase the anality here, here is a photo of a repro kick panel screw next to an original:



Repro on the left, original on the right. I have 6 on each side like the one on the right, on my late 67. They are still there even though I've changed the kick panels with repro stuff.

Just having fun, aren't you?

[Scott S.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Scott,

Maybe the draftsman had a few beers before the shift and confused IN.LBS with PLACES. Only kidding, but it seems like the location is where one would indicate the number of deletions, not the torque. The torque is indicated in the note with the triangle for the screw, which is 10-15 LBS.IN in triangle note 2 for the particular screw.

Hi Jerry,

I see the triangle with the "2" torque rating for Item 8 (4751359 screw) at the lower LH corner of the page with the other torque ratings. But isn't that also a torque rating in Item 5 of the Revision Record? Doesn't it say:

5 | 9414752 SCREW (5 -10 LBS. IN) |

If that's what it says in Item 5 of the Revision Record, and it is a torque rating, is it not likely that the hard to read portion of Revision Record line 1 is a torque rating as well? (see attached picture, Item 5 circled in red)

Now to increase the anality here, here is a photo of a repro kick panel screw next to an original:

Repro on the left, original on the right. I have 6 on each side like the one on the right, on my late 67. They are still there even though I've changed the kick panels with repro stuff.

I like the originals. No contest. I can't explain it, but they just "look" right

Just having fun, aren't you?

Sometimes. Always trying! It's insanely difficult to figure some of this stuff out without having assembled original cars to examine, and a lot of the details are difficult to communicate even with a strong automotive vocabulary, which I don't have.

But it is a lot of fun to discover new things and to figure things out, and very satisfying when (if?) I occasionally get something right

[Gerard F.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Scott,

You are right, for some reason they put the torque next to the screw item they were removing.

Now onto UPC 1 K15 on the screw everyone expects at the rear of the 67 door panel. See if you can find a callout of that screw.

Take a look at Item 23 and View B which was added 2-8-67 and which was fairly late in production. My late June convertible doesn't have this setup, and I have never seen one with this setup (without the screw at the rear of the panel). I wonder if anyone else has.

Like I said above, I found one type screw on one side, and another type on the other, both resembling the kick panel screws, instead of the setup shown on K15.

I find these little items really interesting. We become more like historians.

[John H.]

Re: 1967 Kick Plate Screws

Take a look at Item 23 and View B which was added 2-8-67 and which was fairly late in production. My late June convertible doesn't have this setup, and I have never seen one with this setup (without the screw at the rear of the panel). I wonder if anyone else has.

Like I said above, I found one type screw on one side, and another type on the other, both resembling the kick panel screws, instead of the setup shown on K15.

Jerry -

I've never seen that (item #23 clip) arrangement either, and my June 8th car didn't have it. I expect the clip didn't work, and was replaced by the exposed screws on a Local Deviation; the paperwork from the Resident Engineer didn't make it back to the Release Engineer at Engineering in time to revise the Assembly Manual.